Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Kolokotronis; MarMema
Kolokotronis: Your pastor is very, very wrong. If indeed he told you this, he should be reported to his bishop. Please do try to go to communion in an Orthodox Church. You will be turned away and it is embarrassing for everyone.
MarMema: If your pastor really said this, he was very wrong.

Like I said above, I will believe my pastor over you both. Sorry.
He is more of an expert on what's going on from Rome than you are. He gets his information from the diocese, which gets its information from Rome.
Our pastor disseminates the information, not makes it up. He doesn't get those kinds of things wrong. That is his "business," so to speak, not yours.
He has a tremendous responsibility to get it right. You two don't.
No disrespect intended to either of you.

By the way, the ONLY way I would even THINK about holy communion at an Orthodox Mass would be if I were INVITED to a Mass by an Orthodox friend and I was given permission ahead of time by the priest.
Also, at Catholic Masses, there is no turning away of people from holy communion. No pastor that I know has ever or would ever stop the holy communion service, turn away someone from the bread of Christ and humiliate that person so. I've never seen it done. It seems way too against the very basic concept of Jesus' invitation to salvation.
But, perhaps your priests would do that. I dunno.

19 posted on 12/03/2005 6:35:39 AM PST by starfish923 (Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]


To: starfish923

"He is more of an expert on what's going on from Rome than you are."

You know what, S, I'll just bet that in this area I know more about what is going on between Rome and Constantinople, from both sides, than your parish priest does. But I'll tell you what, suggest to your priest that you've been discussing this matter with some knowledgable Orthodox who say that Roman Catholics will not be admitted to communion in an Orthodox Church and that the Orthodox Church positively instructs its faithful not to receive in Roman Churches. Ask him to check it out with the diocese and see what he says.

A few years ago Rome put out an instruction regarding communion and the faithful of the Orthodox Churches, the Polish National Church and perhaps a couple of others. It said it was OK to give them communion but that it should only be done where there was consultation with the local Orthodox hierarch. Where those consultations have taken place, there is no inter-communion. Unfortunately, a number of those consultations only occured after several of the Orthodox hierarchs in this country complained to Rome. The position of the Latin Church is that there is no impediment to inter-communion but it urges Orthodox faithful to obey their own hierarchs. Our hierarchs say no, though the issue was reviewed in the early 90s when, surprisingly, it was the Russian Church which was for it by an exercise of economia and the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Alexandria and Antioch who were against it.

"No pastor that I know has ever or would ever stop the holy communion service, turn away someone from the bread of Christ and humiliate that person so. I've never seen it done. It seems way too against the very basic concept of Jesus' invitation to salvation.
But, perhaps your priests would do that. I dunno."

Our priests can and do turn people away, though not with any great show about it. Usually this is because someone is known to the priest to be living a lifestyle incompatible with the teachings of The Church for example, politicians who support abortion or people living together and having a sexual relationship outside of marriage or in some Churches, people whom they know haven't been to confession for some period of time. Priests will also often inquire of someone whom they don't know if they are Orthodox before they give them communion. The past couple of years, many priests have taken to making an anouncement before communion that the Eucharist is reserved to Orthodox Christians who are properly prepared by fasting and confession and are living their lives in accordance with Church teaching. This became necessary because we have seen a large number of Protestant inquirers coming to our Liturgies and innocently assuming, as is true in many Protestant churches apparently, that intercommunion is OK.


20 posted on 12/03/2005 8:38:49 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies ]

To: starfish923; Kolokotronis

Trust me, starfish, any non-Orthodox who asked any Orthodox priest I have ever known if he could commune in an Orthodox parish would have been politely told "no."

I really don't see how your priest would be in a position to know the *Orthodox* position on intercommunion better than those of us who are Orthodox on this list (from a variety of jurisdictional backgrounds) -- most of whom have many non-Orthodox in our families. He may get his information from Rome itself, but Rome is not where Orthodox praxis is determined.

It is true that if I approached for communion in a local Catholic church that I would be given communion. Around here, that would also be true if I were Protestant or Hindu. And Catholics are correctly told that the Catholic church has no objection to Catholics communing in Orthodox parishes.

But that is only the Catholic side of things. The Orthodox side is very clear: no inter-communion. Period. Knowledgable Catholic clergy know this, and unless they are being aggressively disrespectful of Orthodoxy, they will not encourage their parishioners to request communion at Orthodox parishes. Some Catholic priests, not knowing any better, will tell their parishioners that they can commune in Orthodox parishes, assuming that if Orthodox are allowed by the Catholic church to commune in Catholic parishes that the reverse must be true. This is an understandable error, and one that I have encountered before.

Regarding someone being turned away at the chalice, I have seen this done quietly any number of times. If a priest doesn't know the person approaching for communion, it is his duty to quietly inquire as to whether they are Orthodox and if they have prepared for communion. If the answer to either is "no", or if there is any question, they are quietly turned away -- often the priest will bless them with the chalice, or in Russian parishes with a tradition of kissing the chalice after communing, unprepared Orthodox may be invited to kiss the chalice.

I have even seen an Orthodox priest turn someone away, then after the service approach the person, discuss it further, hear the person's confession, and then commune them after the service before they themselves finish consuming the gifts.

Most Orthodox parishes will have a small sign or a notice in the bulletin (or even a short statement will be given by the priest prior to communion) saying something to the effect that only Orthodox Christians who have prepared themselves for communion should approach the chalice. Because of this prior notice, in my experience, it is very rare for someone to approach for communion who doesn't fit those criteria.


21 posted on 12/03/2005 1:54:29 PM PST by Agrarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies ]

To: starfish923; Kolokotronis

As a coda to K's comments about priest's inquiring, I would add that because every sacrament in the Orthodox Church is administered by name, a priest at the very least is always going to ask anyone approaching the chalice (whom he doesn't know) what their name is.

Thus, having a priest exchanging a few words with a newcomer to the parish who approaches the chalice prior to communing them is pretty unremarkable.

It's pretty simple: "Are you Orthodox," "are you prepared for communion," and "what is your Christian name?" All the while, the choir or chanters are singing the koinonika, those having communed are busy eating prosphora, and those awaiting communion are minding their own business.

It's all pretty natural.


29 posted on 12/03/2005 8:28:21 PM PST by Agrarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson