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To: Kolokotronis; magisterium
My misstatement of the exact relationship that entails between the Orthodox and the Catholics is insignificant to the issue based on we knowingly do not adhere to various pronouncements of the Pope or of the local councils of the Latin Church (no matter what the Latin Church cares to call them).

This is sufficient to establish the point that there is an element of unfairness about allowing some to have differences and protests while anathemetizing others......when all are believers in Christ.

Mark 9: 9:37 "Whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me, receives not Me but Him who sent Me." 9:38 Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us." 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 9:40 "For he who is not against us is on our side.

366 posted on 12/02/2005 11:33:23 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins; magisterium

"This is sufficient to establish the point that there is an element of unfairness about allowing some to have differences and protests while anathemetizing others......when all are believers in Christ."

What you are proposing, Padre, is nearly universalism. On another thread, some days back, a discussion started on who is in The Church, or perhaps better put, what constitutes The Church. You may have seen it. By a review of the writings of the earliest of the Fathers, a picture of what The Church is appears. In some respects, various Protestant assemblies do carry the hallmarks of The Church but in others, they fall down seriously, even into heresy. For example, there is no Protestant Church of which I am aware that believes and teaches that there are 7 sacraments, not 2. I am unaware of any Protestant assembly, save perhaps the , and I do say perhaps, the Anglicans and the Lutherans, who share The Church's belief in the nature of the Eucharist. No Protestant assembly, save perhaps the Anglicans and some Scandinavian Lutherans can validly claim that their hierarchies are within the Apostolic Succession. Other than some Lutherans, I am unaware of any Protestant group which accepts as dogma the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos. The list goes on. The pre-schism Church held all these beliefs in common. In fact, the Post-schism Church does. If an ecclesial assembly does not hold at least these things in common with the particular Churches which make up The Church, then they are not part of The Church. They may well be good Christian assemblies, but they are not part of The Church. The salvation of the members of those assemblies is a matter for the Holy Spirit. If one does not believe, for example, in the Real Presence, or is in communion with a bishop who doesn't, then The Church says "Let him be anathema." The same anathemas apply to belief in the 7 sacraments etc. There's nothing unfair about that, Padre unless one is being anathemized for reasons other than basic Church doctrine.

This issue brings to mind something I read on Pontifications a couple of days ago. One of the Pontificator's laws is that where Rome and Orthodoxy agree and Protestantism doesn't, Protestantism looses.


367 posted on 12/02/2005 11:50:26 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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