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To: PetroniusMaximus
This idea of temporal and eternal punishment seem like a way of giving lip service to "free forgiveness" but still allowing the Church to extract the penalty from your hide! It's like you want to take one sin and turn it into two. God will forgive you for one, but your going to pay us for the other.

It may seem that way to you but it's really perfectly logical and just.

Let's say someone steals something from you, let's say your statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary that is on your front lawn, (just trying to lighten things up). A short time later the thief feels remorse, he returns to your home, admits his crime and begs your forgiveness. You agree to forgive him, you get on the phone to the police right away and tell them that you don't want to press charges. The repentant thief thanks you and begins to walk away. Now, what do you do, just let him walk away? Of course not, you say, "hey, you still have to bring back my statue!"

Does this demand of the thief somehow lesson your gift of forgiveness? Somehow lessen the gift of not having him arrested and put in jail?

If you never required him to return the statue, do you think he would be less likely or more likely to appreciate your forgiveness? Don't you think he may start to think -"Oh stealing from this guy is no big deal, not only does he not have me arrested, he doesn't even want me to give back what I stole, he doesn't even care about what is rightfully his, it can't be that valuable."

Do you think he may be less likely or more likely to steal again, if he is never required to give back what he steals?

39 posted on 11/30/2005 8:23:55 AM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
"Let's say someone steals something from you, let's say your statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary that is on your front lawn, (just trying to lighten things up). A short time later the thief feels remorse, he returns to your home, admits his crime and begs your forgiveness."

Let's say the thief DESTROYED the statue!

Because that is what happens with sin. How are you going to pay God back for all the minutes, hours and days you have robbed Him of His glory and the service and love He was due??? YOU CAN'T!

God's forgiveness requires blood. The reason we are freely forgiven is because someone else has already paid in blood.

Hebrews 9:22
"Without shedding of blood is no remission."




If you pay for your sins you can not consider your justification to be freely given.

Paul: "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Rom 3
57 posted on 11/30/2005 11:38:18 AM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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