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To: jo kus

Greetings jo kus...Respectfully, perhaps you can answer a few questions I have from this article...indeed you have told me that RCC'r's do not pray to Mary...then I saw this from the Vatican itself:

..."may obtain a Plenary Indulgence in their own homes, or wherever they may be, if, with the soul completely removed from any form of sin, and with the intention of observing the aforesaid conditions as soon as possible, they unite themselves in spirit and in desire to the Supreme Pontiff's intentions in prayer to Mary Immaculate, and recite the Our Father and the Creed."

1.Why would a Vatican document ask it followers to "unite themselves in spirit and in desire to the Supreme Pontiff's intentions in PRAYER to MARY IMMACULATE and recite the Our Father and The Creed." I guess I want to know which is it? Do you pray to Mary or not...according to this Papal decree you actually do or maybe a better way of saying it is you should...

2. How can the Pope know if "the soul completely removed from any form of sin, and with the intention of observing the aforesaid conditions as soon as possible" when this is done in private and frankly if it is done in person to the Pope himself. If this is a requirement of receiving the indulgence, then it seems that the Pope is claiming to do what only God can do--seeing into the hearts of man. Only God knows the hearts of men and only He knows if we are free of sin, which in all honesty is a rare feat indeed for us sinful creatures.

I look forward to your reply...God's Blessings to you...

In Christ...


113 posted on 12/02/2005 7:22:29 PM PST by phatus maximus (John 6:29...Learn it, love it, live it...)
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To: phatus maximus
PM, I will do the best I can in the short time that I have. Sort of busy now, and many other people "demand" responses...

First, as always, I appreciate your graciousness in asking me a question. It shows me that you are sincere in wanting to understand "why do Catholics do that", rather than just to argue.

As to "praying to". It is a matter of semantics, I think. Strictly speaking, everything goes to the Father through the Son. I can imagine the confusion of Protestants when they see "pray to Mary"! But "pray" doesn't necessarily mean "to worship". It also means "to ask". And I think this is what the Pope means. We are to ask the Virgin Mary to intercede for us, just as she interceded at the Wedding of Cana. We believe she is in a special position regarding her Son, Jesus won't refuse her mother - so we "feel". Techinically speaking, only God is deserving of worship. Mary receives praise and honor. Mary can ask her Son for favors for us. But "praying to", in this case, doesn't change the teachings of the Church.

If this is a requirement of receiving the indulgence, then it seems that the Pope is claiming to do what only God can do--seeing into the hearts of man. Only God knows the hearts of men and only He knows if we are free of sin, which in all honesty is a rare feat indeed for us sinful creatures.

Again, a good, honest question. The Church has requirements for an indulgence to be effective. We cannot "obtain" an indulgence or relief from sin by merely exterior fulfilment. Paul is clear about OBLIGATING God. We cannot do it. But in love, the same action done can have effect - as God demands repentance and a loving heart. Thus, if we go through the motions of securing an indulgence, it is a "work" - works cannot save! But if done from the heart out of love and repentance, the Pope is merely teaching what the Gospel teaches (and will teach tommorrow at Mass - Mark 1:1-8 REPENT!), and utilizing his power to bind and loosen, under those conditions. Here is what the Cardinal says. Note my highlights:

"Cardinal Stafford said that to obtain the special Dec. 8 feast day indulgences one must fulfill the normal requirements set by the church for all plenary indulgences, which include that within a reasonably short period of time the person goes to confession, receives the Eucharist and prays for the intentions of the pope, all in a spirit of total detachment from the attraction of sin."

I hope this helps - it is probably not a full answer - please forgive me if it doesn't address the question fully or adds more questions.

Brother in Christ

114 posted on 12/03/2005 11:21:05 AM PST by jo kus
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