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To: sionnsar; little jeremiah
I tried to explain this to little jeremiah resently.

It's the Dioceses that own the deed to all the Parishes, right?

So it looks like all the Bishop has to do is bring a policeman and a Locksmith with him next time. There's no need for a law suit, unfortunately.

Do I have that right sionnsar?

When I pray for schism that's always in the back of my head.

7 posted on 11/29/2005 11:44:58 AM PST by Clint N. Suhks (If you don't like Jesus, you can go to hell.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks; little jeremiah
You are correct. The Dennis Canon was passed in 1979 to stop the flow of churches leaving with their properties -- and the entirety of their congregations. It worked well enough; I am sure many more people would have left, and sooner, but for the Canon. (I might add that a question was raised this year over whether it was properly ratified.)

There have been some churches that left with their properties, though. I think these were cases where state law interefered with the Canon somehow.

And even then I seem to recall that in one high-profile case in CT, the bishop has now been sued.

8 posted on 11/29/2005 12:06:55 PM PST by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity! || Iran Azad)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
It's the Dioceses that own the deed to all the Parishes, right?

I don't believe that is correct. In some cases, the locals have legal title to their property, in some of those cases there are express trusts in favor of the Diocese, in other cases, there is no express trust. Absent an express trust, the bishop has to argue that he has superior rights under the Dennis Cannon. In some states, that may work; in others, like California, it likely will not.

So the first stop should be at the county courthouse to see what the papers say about title under civil law, and then consult an experienced real estate attorney to see what credit, if any, the state will give to canon law.

Of course, if the bishop holds legal title, the question is much simpler.

As applied to this case, the local church appears to have held legal title, which they conveyed to a corporate structure. (There can be reasons for doing this apart from planning to split from the denomination).

Of course, the inverse of all of this can be seen in the bankrupt Catholic diocese, where the Bishop holds title to all of the property, but is claiming that he holds it in trust for the Parish. (I'd like to see how fast he'd change his tune if a Catholic parish tried to walk with 'its' property.)

11 posted on 11/29/2005 1:08:28 PM PST by PAR35
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