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To: count-your-change

Two sources that you won’t dispute as canonical mention women in a liturgical role; 2 Machabees mentions virgins specifically; the rest are evidence from Jewish tradition. All these are historical evidence from an unbiased source (the Rabbis had no interest in promoting Marian Christianity). Like Dr. Marshall says, “We may not know much about [the Temple virgins], but we know that they existed”.


59 posted on 01/21/2013 6:43:13 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

None of the verses in Numbers or 1 Sam. or Ex. say anything about tenple virgins. What are noted is women serving or gathered outside the tabernacle. Josephus says nothing about temple virgins and the reference to the Mishnah?

“(5) Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says
in the name of Rabbi Shimon the son
of the deputy [High Priest]: The
curtain was one handbreadth thick and
was woven onto seventy-two threads,
each thread was braided from
twenty-four threads [consisting of six
threads of blue wool, six of purple
wool, six of crimson wool and six
threads of linen]. Its length was forty cubits and its width was twenty cubits
[corresponding to the dimesions of the entrance hall] and was made out of
eighty-two times ten thousand [individual threads]. They would make two [new]
curtains every year [which required immersion to sanctify its use for the Temple]
and three hundred priests [not to be taken literaly, rather meaning a lot of people]
would immerse it.”

Where are the temple virgins?

Marshall can think he knows whatever he wishes but so far the only basis he’s given is unreliable tradition. If that’s enough for him...then it is.


60 posted on 01/21/2013 8:37:43 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: annalex; count-your-change
Two sources that you won’t dispute as canonical mention women in a liturgical role;

No they don't - The texts you provide mention virgins, but do not suggest a liturgical function at all. The word you are relying on, 'tsâbâ,' has a military context depicting mustering or a troop assembling:

צבא
tsâbâ'

tsaw-baw'
A primitive root; to mass (an army or servants): - assemble, fight, perform, muster, wait upon, war.

(e-Sword:KJV, Strongs[H6633])


>H6633
צבא
tsâbâ'

Total KJV Occurrences: 14
fight, 4
Isa_29:7-8 (3), Isa_31:4
assembled, 2
Exo_38:8, 1Sa_2:22
mustered, 2
2Ki_25:19, Jer_52:25
warred, 2
Num_31:7, Num_31:42
assembling, 1
Exo_38:8
fought, 1
Zec_14:12
perform, 1
Num_4:23
wait, 1
Num_8:23-24 (2)

(e-Sword:KJV, KJC[H6633])

One might better defend imagining these virgins as Amazon warriors than inferring a liturgical sense. One had best assume an assembly of virgins... a group.... perhaps with an implied zealousness, as they are by the gate, as opposed others which may linger in the courtyard...

2 Machabees mentions virgins specifically;[...]

Yes it does, but it does not mention 'consecrated' virgins. It mentions no special order of virgins... Ergo, one is left with the normal specification for virgin, which unlike what the Roman mind would assume, is the 'set apart' aspect of Hebrew virgins... namely, all of them. That does imply a sanctity, a preference among women as being undefiled, but that does not imply any order, or specific temple order thereof. 'Shut up' need not mean 'cloistered', as it seems the writer has inferred.

[...] the rest are evidence from Jewish tradition. All these are historical evidence from an unbiased source (the Rabbis had no interest in promoting Marian Christianity).

Yes. A Jewish tradition that outright denies your claim. A Jewish tradition that would better know their own Temple and it's designs... Far better to take their word on the matter than rely on foreign interpretations.

Like Dr. Marshall says, “We may not know much about [the Temple virgins], but we know that they existed”.

I would say that Dr. Marshall has done little to prove his point. We do not know they existed, and the lion's share of evidence speaks to their profound absence.

64 posted on 01/22/2013 11:58:26 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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