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To: djrakowski

No I expect you to beleive we don't have secret seminaries where there's gay priests fornicating in every room, and giving the eucharist to dogs.

This is actually a situation that deserves swift Vatican top-down action. There is an infection in the American Catholic church going back decades and it will not heal over night.

Further this whole problem begins in 1054 when the pope leaves the apostolic church and declares himself the end all be all maker and breaker of doctrine, then one of his successors decides that priest shouldn't marry since they may create rich dynastys of priests, instead of giving their wealth to the church; making the church a haven for men who are uninterested in traditional marriage and looking to cover up their behavior. After this seed of evil entered the church the bishops completely droped the ball and instead of extinguishing it outright they spread it around the whole church.

Were the shared group of patriarch still in communion at that time they would have intervened in the heresey of requiring men to take a vow of celibacy to enter the priesthood, the whole problem would have been tackled long before it became an infection.


81 posted on 11/22/2005 9:40:00 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452
Further this whole problem begins in 1054 when the pope leaves the apostolic church and declares himself the end all be all maker and breaker of doctrine

I hadn't realized that there are still Orthodox out there who believe that stuff... Perhaps you should return to reading the Church Fathers and you will find out over and over again that the Bishop of Rome DID have a primacy that was over and above a figurehead like the Queen of England. First among equals! It means more than what you claim. It was HE whom the Bishops wrote to for clarifications on doctrinal disagreements. Did Rome ever write to St. John Chrysostom or Athanasius to get official rulings on the faith? When heretics appeared within the Church, did Rome write to Athanasius for help? WHY ROME? Rome is thousands of miles from Alexandria. Unless, of course, Athanasius and the other Eastern Fathers recognized that the Bishop of Rome was the successor of Peter, the leader of the Apostles - first among equals, but given the keys, given the responsibility to feed Christ's Sheep. Ignoring this is ignoring the history of the Church at least 600-700 years BEFORE the Great Schism.

then one of his successors decides that priest shouldn't marry since they may create rich dynastys of priests

Again, you are misinformed. The Western practice of celibacy of priests was a discipline before the Great Schism. Even if it was not, it is a discipline - so it is not a heresy, as you claim. Again, your polemics do not help matters but only throw fuel on the fire.

Were the shared group of patriarch still in communion at that time they would have intervened in the heresey of requiring men to take a vow of celibacy to enter the priesthood, the whole problem would have been tackled long before it became an infection.

LOL! If only the Catholic Church didn't leave the Orthodox church...You read the secular paper's version on what happened regarding the sexual abuse scandal. This totally ignores that FACT that there are many more MARRIED perverts, school teachers, cub Scout leaders, janitors, people of ALL social classes and occupations. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING MARRIED OR CELIBATE! If a person is gay or has gay tendencies, marriage doesn't "fix" them! Psychologists have largely disproved that idea. Much of the problem, as I mentioned before, is the UNITED STATES bishops and their dissent to Paul VI encyclical on contraception. Dissent and the accpetance within culture of homosexual and deviant behavior has been a big part of the problem - by the way, which is NOT a problem in the vast majority of Catholicism, ONLY in the US. Being that the Church in America is less than 10% of the total Catholic Church, I would hardly say that this problem pervades the entire Church...

Regards

97 posted on 11/22/2005 11:35:43 AM PST by jo kus
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