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To: x5452; kosta50

The claimed autocephally of the OCA.


34 posted on 11/19/2005 1:10:32 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/ROCOR_and_OCA

To this day, only the Churches of Russia, Bulgaria, Poland, Georgia, and the Czech Lands and Slovakia recognize the autocephaly of the OCA.
http://orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/EardwineUnity.php

Considering the crisis the East Europe churches experienced in 1917 I'd say it's their call on the autocephally OCA.

The only ones with a legitimate qualm is ROCOR which itself is returning to communion with the MP, and them only because of the properties lost when the OCA was granted autocephally.

The rest are mostly playing a game of holier than thou.


37 posted on 11/19/2005 1:36:19 PM PST by x5452
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To: Kolokotronis

http://www.holy-trinity.org/modern/theodosius.html


38 posted on 11/19/2005 1:38:07 PM PST by x5452
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To: Kolokotronis; x5452; Queen Beruthiel; Agrarian; MarMema
Reading the back-and-forth exchange between Kolo and x5452 must do anything but encourage Queen Beruthiel -- and she and her husband have already made up their minds! How is what appears to be anything but Orthodoxy to encourage others with all the infighting and re-engineering going to match words with deeds Orthodoxy makes claim to?

All I can say to that is shame, shame, shame to all. Whether it be Serbs who, coming from communist backwoods have no clue about Orthodoxy or manners for that matter, whether it be power-grabbing games that go on between the "big" and the "petit" (Hermann the Cherusker's favorite expression -- but apparently quite true!) Patriarchiates, whether it be "independent" minded OCA and its pretend "authocephaly" supported by the "coalition of the willing" (where have I heard that before), made up of such "giants" known to toe the line as the Bulgarian (on-again, off-again) Orthodox Church, the mighty Czech Orthodox Church, etc., whether it be "who's the first" in the Orthodox world, whether it be "inclusive" freaks, etc. -- it all boils down to one and the same thing: we are no better than any other church but we like to act holier than thou!

Yet, Orthodoxy teaches us that this is not what we should do; rather we should point the finger of blame first and foremost on ourselves, because although we say we are first among the sinners, we really don't believe it for one moment. We certainly don't act as such!

False humility is the one most prominent feature of many a Christian. But, Faith must be shown through deeds ("works"), as +James says, and not only in words. I have stayed away form any particular parish, "denomination," or church politics for a long time. The more I approach the Church the uglier it gets. Hypocrisy is alive and well. Everything seems to define Orthodoxy nowadays except Orthodoxy! Whether it be ethnic pride (what are we proud of -- pride is a sin!), whether it be self-importance; whether it blaming others; whether it be power-grabbing, etc. none of this is Orthodoxy.

We have not only much work ahead of us; we are still at the start line. Shame on us all!

72 posted on 11/20/2005 4:17:21 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Kolokotronis; All
It seems to me that the formal recognition of the MP and in consequence some 200 million or so Orthodox Christians is not insignificant. By my reckoning somewhere around three quarters of the worlds Orthodox would by default regard themselves as being in communion with an autocephilous Orthodox Church in America. And while it is true that the EP and a majority of the worlds other canonical Orthodox churches have not granted de jure recognition of the OCA's status they do almost without exception regard the OCA as being an canonical and self governing church. This raises some interesting questions about church politics. But being Catholic, and having enough church politics of our own to deal with; I will let you all bicker about this rather silly point.
121 posted on 11/20/2005 8:55:18 PM PST by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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