Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What is the nature of God?
not | self

Posted on 11/14/2005 1:20:59 PM PST by homeschool_dad

Call it a part of my midlife crisis or whatever you wish, but I've been experiencing a loss of faith over the passt few months. Strangely enough, the loss of faith came about from my own heart-search of Lutheranism. The article below is a work-in-progress for me; a place for me to write down my own thoughts to keep them straight. As I seem to have stalled recently, I thought I would post it here in hopes that some useful feedback or ideas would be forthcoming. Please note that it is a work-in-progress and not meant to be a complete record of my question.

What is the nature of God?

Religious upbringing taught me that God is omniscient (having total knowledge), and omnipresent (present everywhere simultaneously), and the creator of the universe. We were also taught that that His word is found in the Bible, and that that Bible is infallible (incapable of error), and that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son for us that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life”. So, using the precepts that I learned as a child, I believed (and still believe today) that God is the Creator, God is Truth, and God is Love.

As I approached the age of 40, I began to wonder about this Person that I had been praying to for my whole life. It occurred to me that for the most part that while growing up, my prayers were simply repetitions of passages I had learned in school. I began to search for a more defined image of who God really is. I decided to go back in to the scriptures that I had been taught, and see if they held up to the scrutiny of what I believe God to be (The Creator, Truth, and Love).

God and creation

The belief in creation is an easy one for me. All I have to do is look at the perfection of Nature and in the natural world, and it is very evident to me. When taken as a whole, our Earth is a remarkable, living planet whose life cycles are plainly visible on every continent and in every sea. It is my own personal belief, and nothing more, that this world is not a product of chance, or randomness. But does that mean that I believe in the tale of creation as told in the Bible? I don’t know. And as I began to ponder that, I began to wonder to myself this question: “Does it really matter *how* God created the world?” Is it essential to my salvation that I believe that God created the world in 7 days? Or is it enough that I believe that He *did* created it – somehow – and I really don’t care how long it took Him.

God and the nature of Truth

One definition of truth is “reality”. I would also add “honesty” to the definition. With the realization that my very soul is at stake, I began to turn a critical eye towards the foundation of modern Christianity: The King James Bible. I looked to apply the Christian’s word, “infallible”, to their own book.

Now, there are any number of publications which list supposed biblical contradictions, and just as many books refuting and explaining away those contradictions. However, a friend of mine pointed out one instance in the bible where 2 of the apostles record a specific incident one way, and a 3rd disciple has a quite different recollection. See below:

Matthew 26:

6: Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, 7: There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

Mark 14:

3: And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

John 12:

1: Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. 2: There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. 3: Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

Matthew and Mark write that Mary took ointment and poured it on Christ’s head. John, however, says that Mary anointed his feet and wiped his feet with her hair. I suppose to many, this would be an insignificant thing. To me, though, it was a ray of light in the dark. Here was one irrefutable example of something in the Bible that was, at the very least puzzling if not outright contradictory. I now had to begin to operate under the assumption that the Bible that I had so long held to as The Truth, might not be.

2 Timothy 3: (food for thought)

15": And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

"16": All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

"17": That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God and the nature of Love

Child rape, slavery, and body mutilation are certainly not the thoughts that come to mind when you contemplate Love. Yet both Jewish and Christian tradition allow for these things.

From Jewish doctrine: “Although we do not follow this dictum, technically speaking, a girl can be betrothed the moment she is born, and married at the age of three” (Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1).

2: If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. (Exodus 21)

6: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

I can’t be one of those people who just gloss over the Old Testament and say that it doesn’t apply to us now that Christ came and fulfilled the Law. Fact is, this is what Jewish law *was*. And in my heart I do not believe that God is ever a God of slavery or pain. Yes, I guess I’m saying that I don’t believe that the God of Jewish law is the “true” God. So by definition then I’m saying that I don’t believe that the Christian God is the True God. This is pretty scary ground for a life-long protestant to be treading.

September 11th

What a horrifying day. I actually saw on tv as the 2nd plane hit the Tower. It was one of those things that you see with your eyes in real life – as it happens, but your brain can’t comprehend. I couldn’t understand a second plane full of passengers barreling into those buildings. I couldn’t begin to think what those people may have been thinking as they watched their death approach.

September 11th for me was another milestone on my journey. I wanted to understand what makes those people (Muslims) hate us so much. So again, I turned to scripture. I guess I vaguely remembered the story from Grade School, but I when I re-read it, it put everything that had just happened into a brand new context. As I read it, Abraham has been promised by God that he would have a male heir, and that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars, or sand on the beach. Abraham was already into his 70’s, already past the usual age of being a father. Since his wife Sarah had not born him any male heirs, at Sarah’s bidding, Abraham slept with his servant, Hagar. Hagar did bear him a son, named Ishmael. Shortly after that, Sarah, too, bore Abraham a son, Isaac.

So, who is the heir of Abraham? Who is the heir to the land of Israel? The (perhaps) illegitimate but first born Ishmael, or the first born to Abraham and Sarah – Isaac?

Eventually, Hagar and Ishmael were banished from Abraham’s camp, and went out into the desert. Ishmael went on to be the patriarch of the Arab nations and founders of Islam who lay their claim to Israel on Ishmael birth as the first born son of Abraham. Isaac went on to be the patriarch of the tribes of Israel, who base their claim on the land of Israel on Isaac’s birthright.

So what does this all mean? That Jews, Christians, and Muslims all pray to the same God (whilst calling Him different names). That if Abraham would have kept his Johnson in his pants and trusted what God had told him, we wouldn’t be having all of this bloodshed in the Middle East today. Beyond that, I started to believe that they ALL (Christians, Muslims, AND Jews) had it wrong. Back to my basic, fundamental beliefs that God is a God of Love… the True God would not want his followers killing ANYone in His name. That goes for Christians, Muslims, and Jews, too.


TOPICS: Eastern Religions; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-46 last
To: XeniaSt
The followers of Mohammed serve the Evil One.

No more so than anyone else who doesn't worship Christ.

41 posted on 11/15/2005 2:19:05 PM PST by jude24 ("Thy law is written on the hearts of men, which iniquity itself effaces not." - St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: homeschool_dad
Based on your response, I want you to do something, I want to read what this entire post (I know it'll be a chore), and then the following passages:

I Cor 1:18-29; I Cor 3:18-20; I Cor 2 (and park on that chapter, and chew the cud). It'll become plain what I'm talking about after you've read this whole post. Succinctly put: you're trying to discern spiritual truths intellectually, and that's impossible.

I wrote the following before my original response to you. As I indicated, the first thing I did was pray about it. Then I wrote the following. Then I saved it, and wrote what I originally posted to you. Now I feel compelled to post my initial thoughts. Based on your original post, and your subsequent replies, indicates to me that you are seeking Truth. In Isa 1:18, the Lord pleads with us to reason out our salvation. The Lord doesn't want you to check your brains at the door when you become Born Again. Nevertheless, I feel compelled to post my initial commentary at this time in this thread.

Anyways here's what I initially wrote:

Let me preface everything by saying that I'm not sure there's a specific question in your post, but I do detect a need for encouragement, exhortation, edification and nourishment of the soul. The very first thing I did was pray to the Father in His Son's name for guidance in this matter. I pray for the Holy Spirit's blessing and ministering to you, providing the comfort you seek. Furthermore, I ask that I will be a suitable tool in the Spirit's hands, and that you may hear His Word through me, that your head may understand His Word, and that your heart may become convicted of its Truth (the heart can't accept what the head doesn't know).

Your post made me think of the following verse:

As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for You, 0 God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God? - Psalm 42:1,2
I wish to draw your attention first of all to Psalms 1:1-3. I firmly believe that for believers to derive comfort from the Word, then they need to be in the Word, and furthermore they need to be in the Word daily. Let me ask you: how's your Quiet Time?

A daily time with God, or a quiet time, is a frequently suggested practice for believers, and yet it is probably the most neglected of all spiritual disciplines. Sunday church attendance? "We've been there." Bible study and tithing? "We've done that." Rememberance of the Lord's suffering, crucifixion, and resurrection at the Lord's Supper, "we regularly take part". But what about a daily quiet time?

The purpose of the Quiet Time is the habitual devotion of a small portion of one's day in the presence of God. The goal of the quiet time is to build a relationship with God. One prepares for quiet time by clearing one's mind of all other thoughts except of God, coming to God alone as an individual, drawing close to God, and expecting to have a fresh encounter with God every day. At home, quiet time could be private time, but it can also be done as a family. Many families do this. Children are raised from their earliest memories that this happens. When the children are too young to understand or participate, then they are given a task (such as coloring) to occupy them where they can be observed by the parent(s), and the parents engage in quiet time. The children are to understand that they are to be quiet.

Daily fellowship with God is vital to the Christian life, and is called many things: quiet time, devotions, morning watch. But to live an effective Christian life, all Christians need to draw on the strength, wisdom and guidance of Jesus Christ. This we do as we take time to get to know Him personally. In utter frankness, Quiet Time doesn't even need to be strictly quiet. A family engaged in devotions or morning watch, sitting at the table before breakfast, can take turns reading verses out of a chapter. Then they can spend time reflecting or discussing as a group the meanings of the various passages that each individual read. Perhaps this can be done at the beginning of the week, and thereafter, Quiet Time is indeed quiet, individual, reflecting on the passages read. The discussion about the passages can be done as a group at the end of the week. What an excellent witness to our children from their earliest recollection seeing their parents engaged in such Godly behavior. What a most wonderfull means to prepare them for their day in the carnal and materialistic world! Although the best time to meet with God has to be settled individually, the Scriptures offer considerable help in this matter. Many of God's men practiced meeting Him in the day's first hours, before that inevitable host of responsibilities hemmed them in. Jesus did this.

Now in the morning, having risen a long while before daylight, He went out, and departed to a solitary place, and there He prayed. - Mk 1:35
While the morning probably would be best for most believers also, whenever quiet time is engaged in, it should be done when we are at our peak and not at our ebb. While some people are night owls, there are many for whom those quiet hours before the world has gotten into gear offer the best time for uninterrupted concentration on what God wants to say to you from His Word.

Another reason favoring the early morning is a defensive one. If you don't get fellowship with Christ early, you may not get it at all. The devil knows the devastating impact of an effective Christian life. Satan will pepper your schedule each day with unexpected activities to keep you from that appointment with God. Quiet Time is one of the facets to being a Disciple of Jesus Christ. One can't be a Disciple if one doesn't know what the Word says, and one can't know what the Word means if they don't spend time reflecting on the Word. Let me give you a coarse analogy of the benefits of being in the Word. I read a commentary about the translators of the Authorized King James Version of the Bible. Essentially what was said was that working on that translation was akin to wiring a house with the power on. Its for this very reason that believers need to be in the Word, and they need to be in it daily. I asked you to read Psalms 1:1-3. I wish to direct your attention to v2 (Josh 1:8). The English word "meditate" is derived from the Hebrew Hägäh. Zhodiates says of Hägäh:

to murmur, to mutter, to growl, to sigh, to moan, to roar, to meditate, to muse, to speak, to whisper. The word describes a low moaning sound like that of a dove or the growling of a lion which has trapped its prey. It is possible the Scriptures were read audibly during the process of meditation.
Don't trap yourself into believing God rates your fellowship with Him by the amount and pace of things you do during the quiet time. Remember, your goal is to get to know a person. Three things are important with respect to Quiet Time:

1) The right frame of mind. This is initiated by opening with a prayer to the heavenly Father, by reading a Psalm or a portion of a Psalm because that may helps instill an attitude of worship.

2) Prayer. During prayer time, worship the Lord for WHO HE IS, and praise the Lord for the GREAT THINGS HE HAS DONE (and is doing.) Confession of sin is important, as is thanksgiving for the Lord's gracious forgiveness. Then I pray for my family and friends. Lastly, I bring my personal needs before God.

3) Scripture reading. It isn't a good idea to read here and there, in a willy-nilly fashion. Read through the scriptures. Begin with the gospels. You may want to alternate between the Old and New Testaments. Finish a book before going to another one. Don't try to read too much at a time, so that you can give some thought to what you are reading. Keep a journal about what the Lord is saying through the passages just read. Writing your thoughts down will help cement them in your mind.

For any believer who is plumbing the depths of the Word, the value of sound, solid reference materials are beyond calculations. This means a doctrinally sound study Bible, e.g, Scofield, Ryrie, Thompson, Zhodiates, et ali, concordances, lexicons such as Strongs and Vines, Bible atlases, commentaries, especially A.T. Robertson's New Word Pictures. Devotionals such as The Daily Bread (by RBC Ministries), or devotional calendars such as Choice Gleanings (by Gospel Folio Press). With respect to the devotionals, I don't read the commentary, but I read the daily scripture passage. Then I go to the Word. I find out what the cross reference passages are. I read each of the cross reference passages, I read each of the associated cross reference passages for each of the associated cross references. I look up the bolded words in the passages that are linked to Strong's Lexicon references. I pay attention to any commentary that may be indicated for that reference (as footnotes or in the margins). I pursue this until I've squeezed the Word dry of whatever meaning that passage has. I'll read the whole paragraph, I'll read the chapter (perhaps even the book if necessary) to obtain the context that the passage is to be taken in. Once the Word has been wrung dry of meaning, then I read the commentary in the Daily Bread devotional. And boy oh boy oh boy oh Chef Boy ar Dee, what meaning one gets out of that devotional then. After doing all that, the devotional as it pertains to that passage is only the tip of the ice berg. But what I just did was discover that whole iceberg.

You'll find at first that your quiet time will be short. But as you get to know Jesus better, you will be spending more and more time in His presence because you'll be developing an appreciation of His love and friendship with Him will demand it.

I asked you to read Psa 1:1-3 for a particular reason and that was to draw your attention to the benefits of meditation on the Word. I gave you a definition, and the various connotations that the original Hebrew word has. Let me give you another analogy of how we are to meditate upon the word. Many Christian congregations are led by a pastor. Ignoring for a moment the unscriptural issue that pastorship is not an office (it is a gift of the spirit), what kind of animals is it that a shepard is responsible for? A pastor is shephard of a flock of sheep. Sheep belong to the ruminant classification of animals. Ruminants are characterized by their "four" stomachs and "cud-chewing" behavior. The cud is a food bolus that has been regurgitated. Read Mt 4:4; Lk 4:4; Jn 6:51; Jn 6:58. Now consider the context of what I've said thus far, and how the sheep of Christ's flock live. Can you see the connection with Psa 1:1-3?

Now imagine me as a sheep chewing on that iceberg I was previously talking about, swallowing it, spitting it back up again, chewing on that iceberg again and again and again and again and again (you get the idea, HEY I'M A SHEEP DON'T YA KNOW? and I've four stomachs to do that with) all the while growling like a satisfied lion that caught its prey and cooing like a bunch of contented doves pecking at their seed. That's what Psa 1:1-3 is all about.

42 posted on 11/15/2005 2:27:45 PM PST by raygun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: jude24
This is a historically fallacious argument.

No, it is a fact.

The Jews hardly worshipped a new deity when they began worshipping El. The Cannanites and Ugarites worshipped an El who looked nothing like the El in the Bible. Yet that did not prevent Moses from using that name for God quite profusely.

That is because "EL" and "Elohim" are generic terms for "god/gods", not a proper name like "Yahveh" or "Allah".

Arabic Christians refer to God as "Allah,"

Arabic Christians did not do so before Islamic domination of the region. There are similarities with the Syriac, but that is irrelevant considering that the archeological evidence of the existence of the non Judeo-Christian Allah pantheon is not in doubt and long predates that usage.

and ultimately, "Allah" is a linguistic corruption of the tetragrammaton YHWH.

It is no such thing. Allah is a proper noun, the name of a specific deity. Some will assert that it is a corruption of "al Ilah" (Ilah being the Arabic name for God), but no competent linguist has ever asserted that it is a corruption of "YHWH". Whoever told you that was clueless.

This debate - whether or not the entity is the same - is at best a red herring.

You are in error. The identity of God is relevant, not merely the form of worship. To equate the worship of YHWH with worship of Allah, Vishnu, or Zeus is the beginning of an error which can only reach erroneous conclusions.

What word they use is irrelevant. Islam and Judaism, by their terms, claim to worship the same God as I. I must take them at their word,

So if a Luciferian Gnostic or a Kali disciple claims to worship the same God as you you will "take them at their word" as well? Or do the Muslims for some reason deserve special treatment and the rules of evidence do not apply to them?

43 posted on 11/15/2005 2:47:40 PM PST by Technogeeb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: jude24
No more so than anyone else who doesn't worship Christ.

There are many Torah observant Jews
who believe in the coming Mashiach ,
they just don't know his name is Y'shua.

b'shem Y'shua

44 posted on 11/15/2005 3:04:05 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Dark Skies
God and the Holy Spirit are not perceived with the noggin...He cannot be grasped intellectully

True. The intellect cannot create faith. But, the intellect does INFORM faith, and the Lord said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

45 posted on 11/15/2005 8:58:47 PM PST by Rytwyng
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: homeschool_dad
"do I blindly accept the bible as it's written, or do I use the faculties that God has given me to ask and to search"?

My answer:

Ask, seek, knock.
Put all things to the test; hold fast to that which is good.
Search the Scriptures daily to see if these things are so.

Ping or freepmail me any time.

46 posted on 11/15/2005 9:02:03 PM PST by Rytwyng
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-46 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson