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To: spunkets

I am quite aware of the canons of the Council of Orange. Surely you don't see Canon I and Canon II as "essentially the same" do you? Your complaint seems to be with the concept of inherited sin, or perhaps inherited guilt. Do you see that expressed in Canon I?


52 posted on 11/12/2005 6:07:23 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
" Your complaint seems to be with the concept of inherited sin, or perhaps inherited guilt. Do you see that expressed in Canon I?"

Yes. I'll post Canon 1.

"If anyone denies that it is the whole man, that is, both body and soul, that was "changed for the worse" through the offense of Adam's sin, but believes that the freedom of the soul remains unimpaired and that only the body is subject to corruption, he is deceived by the error of Pelagius and contradicts the scripture which says, "The soul that sins shall die" (Ezek. 18:20); and, "Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey?" (Rom. 6:16); and, "For whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved" (2 Pet. 2:19)."

It's says both the body and soul of men were changed for the worst, because of Adam's sin. It then goes on to say that to deny that Free will no longer exists, because of Adam's sin, contradicts Ezechiel 18:20. Here is Ezekiel 18:20,
" The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."

Ezeliel 18:20 clearly contradicts the claim of Canon 1.

Canon 1 then goes on to claim that we are slaves to sin, because of Adam's sin. Again contradicting Ezekiel 18 and all of John 9. In John 9:3 God said, " Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. If man was a slave to sin as claimed, both the blind man and his parents would have sinned. Canon 1 also contradicts Gen 1: 26-27
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

This never changed. Gen 1:26-27 holds as is.

Canon 2

"CANON 2. If anyone asserts that Adam's sin affected him alone and not his descendants also, or at least if he declares that it is only the death of the body which is the punishment for sin, and not also that sin, which is the death of the soul, passed through one man to the whole human race, he does injustice to God and contradicts the Apostle, who says, "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" (Rom. 5:12)."

The first man sinned, that is why sin came into the world. All men did not sin though, simply because Adam did. Canon 2 did not include Romans 5:13 which is an integral part of Paul's thought. Romans 5:13-"for before the law was given, sin was in the world. That changes the meaning of the selected quote considerably. Now each man sins on his own having no law to guide him. Yet Enoch walked with God and Noah was righteous.

Genesis 5:24
"Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away."

Genesis 6:9
"This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God."

56 posted on 11/12/2005 6:52:23 PM PST by spunkets
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