"God's intent, from the beginning is that the gift of life should be eternal and with Him. God came to teach, to enable us to do so. ... That draw is the recognition of the Holy Spirit. The presentaiton of the Holy Spirit is grace. Man judges the Holy Spirit according to what they value. The draw is realizaiton and judgement [that] what the Spirit holds and teaches is good."
Augustine's description of Pelagius' idea of grace corresponds precisely with spunkets' definition:
For that grace and help of God, by which we are assisted in avoiding sin, [Pelagius] places either in nature and free will, or else in the gift of the law and teaching; the result of which of course is this, that whenever God helps a man, He must be supposed to help him to turn away from evil and do good, by revealing to him and teaching him what he ought to do, but not with the additional assistance of His co-operation and inspiration of love, that he may accomplish that which he had discovered it to be his duty to do. (On the Grace of Christ, 3)
Forgot to ping you to the above mentioning you, sorry.
Thanks. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised everytime I run across old heresies coming to life, but I still am. Your further explanation of Pelagianism makes it even more clear to me why The Church anathemized it. It absolutely guts any of The Church's teachings about the Incarnation and virtually everything which follows from that (which, of course, is pretty much everything we profess as Christians).
That is obviouly not the Holy Spirit. This statement of yours is similar to the notion of what I have gathered sofar in reading about what the monk held. I don't know exactly what he did hold though.
I said that grace was the presentation of the Holy Spirit. That's, because the Holy Spirit is a person and it's the person presenting Himself. God is not law and teachings. Not all accept the Holy Spirit and in fact some reject Him. The rejection is based on what He holds. If one accepts the Holy Spirit, they accept what He holds and the comfort and joy He brings. For some, that's all they know about Him and that's all that matters. They are like children and know no more. John 14:1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
The phrases, "filled with Holy Spirit" and "filled will grace" are used interchangably in the New Testament.
Luke 1:15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Here grace and the Holy Spirit and one in the same. The Holy Spirit is God and grace is all those things that make up the Person od God.
John 1:16
From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 15:26
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
John 16:7
But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
Matthew 12:39
He answered, ""A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."
All the above verses refer to the Holy Spirit. God Himself never menitons the word grace, only the words counselor, bread of life, and the Holy Spirit. They are all one in the same.
"Augustine's description of Pelagius' idea of grace corresponds precisely with spunkets' definition:
Well let's see.
Your cut from Augustine.
"For that grace and help of God, by which we are assisted in avoiding sin, [Pelagius] places either in nature and free will, or else in the gift of the law and teaching;"
The Holy Spirit is the person of God, not law and teaching. Augustine then states his conclusion.
"that whenever God helps a man, He must be supposed to help him to turn away from evil and do good, by revealing to him and teaching him what he ought to do, but not with the additional assistance of His co-operation and inspiration of love, that he may accomplish that which he had discovered it to be his duty to do.
One who is guided by the Holy Spirit, the person of God, co-operates absolutely. The inspiration of Love is w/o a doubt recognized. I concluded that I don't believe Pelagius and agree with Augustine here. That means what I hold is not Pelagianism.