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To: jo kus
”First, it takes more than "ignoring" the Spirit. It must be a WILLFUL turning from God. We call this "mortal" sin, the sin that brings spiritual death (1 John). To be in this situation (possible hell), one must have committed a serious sin, knew it was serious, and DID it, anyway. “

And what serious sin would this be that hasn’t been done before? I’d think you would find at least one person that God loved doing just about every sin there ever was. King David murder a person, knew the seriousness of his crime, and yet did it anyway. The problem is we don’t understand the depths of our depravity, the evilness of our own hearts and the great love and forgiveness of God. Besides, when you accepted Christ didn't He forgive ALL your sins?

Second, the word "helps" (refering to the Spirit helping me do good works) can give improper connotations. It is more like the Spirit is THE operating principle within me, not a 90-10 proposition. "Take over" I say to the Spirit!

This is the other place where I would disagree. God leads. Jesus leads. The Holy Spirit leads. We don’t say “take over” to God. God is running the show. While we are being led we may say we are not going to do something (like Jonah) or we may wish to not listen and run ahead like the Israelites at Ai, but God will bring us back to the right track.

The fact that you see the Spirit as only a “life indwelling” being reduces the Holy Spirit to nothing more than a conscience. Ezekiel states that God would give us a new heart and a new spirit that WOULD CAUSE us to walk in His statues and be obedient. I don’t see how this fits with your definition.

518 posted on 11/15/2005 11:28:15 AM PST by HarleyD ("For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Lk 19:10 - Did He do it?)
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To: HarleyD
King David murder a person, knew the seriousness of his crime, and yet did it anyway

And then repented...

...when you accepted Christ didn't He forgive ALL your sins?

The ones that I have asked for forgiveness, yes. My future sins, thus, are discounted, although they will be forgiven IF and when I ask with contrition.

God leads. Jesus leads. The Holy Spirit leads. We don’t say “take over” to God.

I thought it meant the same thing.

While we are being led we may say we are not going to do something (like Jonah) or we may wish to not listen and run ahead like the Israelites at Ai, but God will bring us back to the right track.

Again, you are presuming that God WILL lead us in the same way that He leads figures of the past. Again, you have assigned yourself a member of the elect. Can we presume that GOD makes this decision?

The fact that you see the Spirit as only a “life indwelling” being reduces the Holy Spirit to nothing more than a conscience

The Spirit is much more. He is God. He is the Sanctifier. He has inspired Scripture, guides the Church, makes Christ present through the Sacraments, and makes those who desire to be transformed into another Christ. A conscience is a "voice", which may be misinformed, wrong. The Spirit is a spirit of truth. He also, as I said, the One who actually ENABLES us to obey the commandments, have faith, love and repent.

Ezekiel states that God would give us a new heart and a new spirit that WOULD CAUSE us to walk in His statues and be obedient.

Do you think he meant "against one's will"? While God gradually has revealed Himself to us, we DO know that man has free will to decide to follow God's ways or not. Both Moses and Joshua present the two choices to the People of Israel. The first Psalm also presents the same choice. Ezekiel is presuming that the new heart will be THE force behind our obedience to God, rather than our own damaged wills - which, we agree, cannot lead us to God alone. We will no longer be "hearts of stone", one that cannot come to God.

Regards

521 posted on 11/15/2005 12:26:49 PM PST by jo kus
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