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To: madconservative
Paul makes the distinction between what we are to men, and what God views us as.

??? Huh? "Fornicators and adulterers shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven." How do you understand that having anything to do with "what we are to men"? What we are to men has nothing do with our eternal destiny, yet Paul just made a clear statement about the eternal destiny of those who die unrepentant of those grave sins.

Such were some of you

Past tense. They've repented of those sins, but you aren't truly repenting of something if you continue to do it.

254 posted on 11/11/2005 1:04:44 PM PST by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Campion

Please stop just saying fornicators and adulterers. The verse is much more constraining than that. Other parallel verses include those who cause division, or are merely disobedient to their parents. You stated that:

"He makes no exceptions for fornicators and idolaters who declare themselves to be Christians and claim to 'take Jesus as their personal savior'"

but the statement "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" would beg to differ. Again, I contend that if the verse is read the way you wish to read it, no one who has gotten drunk after becoming a Christian can possibly go to heaven. There is no provision for that in the statement. No Christian, including Paul, ever completely mastered his or her flesh before death. Paul argued that we are to conform our actions to the citizen of heaven that we ARE. One does not achieve justification as Paul refers to by promising never to sin again, but through Faith.

Despite your "???Huh?" the concept of positional sanctification and being clothed with Christ's righteousness is very biblical:

"More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

I am saved because God looks at me, and sees one who was washed in the Blood of the Lamb, saved by Grace. The same Grace that saved me will secure me. The same Spirit who sealed me, will empower me to walk in a way pleasing to the Lord's sight (Gal 3:1-10).

Anyway, I hope you have a pleasant weekend. I have to log off and go home :) Got a lot of gutters to clear.

God Bless.


265 posted on 11/11/2005 1:24:08 PM PST by madconservative
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