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To: HarleyD
I don't believe that being "born of God" requires anything on our part. That includes making a "conscious decision to accept Jesus Christ" OR a "cooperating" decision to be baptized into the Church. These are works and man can do nothing that pleases God prior to being born again.

Being born of God is God's act alone. God gives His elect a "new heart and spirit" as stated in Ezekial 36 solely based upon His grace and His grace alone.

Exactly. Which is why Catholics do not believe we can just declare ourselves "born again" and be done with it like some arbitrary decision. But Christ can clearly choose to bring salvation to those not of their own accord, but on accord of the faith of those around them. Being "born again" comes throught the sacrament of Baptism or the Baptism of Desire.

These are works and man can do nothing that pleases God prior to being born again.

So if Baptism is just a work, I presume you find it unnecessary? And if you DO find it necessary, and since it's just a work, why, as a Christian, do you follow something that is nothing but a tradition of man in that respect?

121 posted on 11/11/2005 11:15:20 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("Fizellas! Looks like you guys are up to no good. Well, THIS gang used to be like that TOO, 3, 4)
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To: Rutles4Ever; DBeers; x5452; SoothingDave
"So if Baptism is just a work, I presume you find it unnecessary?"

On the contrary. It is a commandment of God and those who have been born again will desire to follow God's commandments. I do not believe as was pointed out in the Catholic's doctrine that we receive the Holy Spirit through baptism. You are baptized simply because you are a new creature and it is evidence of your rebirth. The only reason I want to be baptized is because God has planted that desire within me.

Additionally, I do not believe you have to maintain your fellowship with God. God does that for you simply because He has given you a new heart and spirit. Old things pass away. All things become new.

Can any of you please explain how man "cooperates" with God in the "new birth" process?

215 posted on 11/11/2005 12:31:20 PM PST by HarleyD (1 John 5:1 - "everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God")
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