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Hi Suzy,

Sorry it's taken awhile for me to respond. I agree with much of what you wrote in 458.

"What I do know is that I need to trust Him because whatever the reason it has to be ultimately good."

I think what you've said here is absolutely foundational for the Christian life. We trust God to be who he is, and we put our faith in His having our best interests at heart.

"So how do we explain the Fall? I think this is a problem for all Christians, not just Calvinists."

I don't see the fall as being problematic. Adam and Eve were given a single commandment: " but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." They were also given the freedom to either obey or disobey God.

They were deceived by the serpent (may God rebuke him,) who told them that they would not die if they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but rather that they would become like God. What the serpent did was to call into question their trust in God. Was God really looking out for their best interests, or was He perhaps trying to keep them from becoming just like He is? They chose to believe that God was not looking out for their best interest. Through our ancestor's sin, our relationship to God was severely damaged, but the choices that are put before us are fundamentally the same. When tempted, we are asked if we believe that what God is asking of us is really in our best interest. Faith in God is the root and foundation of our relationship with God. At the basis of our Faith is our commitment to believe that God IS good, and that God wills only what is good for us, and to trust what God in what he asks of us. Interestingly, Thomas Aquinas wrote in the 13th century something to the effect that the Glory of Christ's redemption of man on the Cross was greater than the Glory of a universe in which the Fall did not occur.

"Man chose to sin and God allowed it. Why? I don't know and I don't think that anyone else does either."

I think that God permits us to sin, because he gives us the freedom to love or not love Him. Ultimately, Heaven is a place prepared for those who love God, and love cannot be forced.

"I believe that evil is less, not more. I do not believe that the creature can be more than the Creator, so I do not believe that man creates evil."

The verb "create" seems to be causing some difficulties in this context. We don't have a problem with the idea of a person creating a work of art, or for that matter, a problem for them self. There seems to be some concern that it would be an act of disrespect to the Almighty if we somehow ascribed the creation of something to man, rather than God. To create evil is to sin, and our sins are our own--we will the evil, the all Good Creator does not. God permits evil because he permits man to use free will, and he even uses men's evil to achieve His own Good ends, but it would be very wrong for us to ascribe our sins to the Will of God.

Would that sound like a way of framing the questions that you would find acceptable, or do you see a problem with the reasoning? Would you agree that God does not create evil?

IQ,
Your comments are interesting. I'll try to clarify where we agree/disagree because I disagree with your reasoning that we are on the same plane with Adam & Eve.

Adam and Eve were given a single commandment: " but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." They were also given the freedom to either obey or disobey God. Agree.

Through our ancestor's sin, our relationship to God was severely damaged, but the choices that are put before us are fundamentally the same. Agree.. The choice, to sin or not to sin, is still the same but the ability that Adam & Eve had to not sin, no longer exists in an unregenerate person. The severe damage caused by the fall affected the whole person - will, mind, heart, & body. This is what is meant by Total Depravity, a misunderstood term that many think means utter depravity. Severe damage that goes to the root of our being.

The reason that the Fall is hard to explain to man's satisfaction is because man wants to know "why." God is not the author of evil, yet he made a tree of knowledge of good & evil and he made Adam & Eve with the ability to sin. I appreciate what you said that Thomas Aquinas wrote, because I believe that what he wrote is the best explanation. God was not surprised by the Fall and he already knew the remedy. It is for his glory.

our sins are our own--we will the evil Agree. Just as you stated, God permits us to sin, but the sin is our own.

At the basis of our Faith is our commitment to believe that God IS good, and that God wills only what is good for us Agree totally.

Keep it simple. Faith in Him as a beginning point in understanding the anthroplogy of man (body, soul, and spirit), doesn't require any further presupposition. Faith is totally nonmeritoroius for the person thinking the faith. Where is is directed at God, through Christ, it is countable as righteousness. In God's Perfect Holiness (His Perfect Holiness = His Perfect Righteousness + His Perfect Justice), when we have faith in Him through Christ, there is nothing of that Holiness that prevents Him from providing grace to us by His Will (His Sovereignty). Sin (disobedience to His Will) as an issue that isolates man from God (death, a state of existence involving separation) has already been dealth with by our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus on the Cross. Good and Evil have not been similarily dealt with because unlike sin, which was atoned by Christ and only requires an immediate act of faith for forgiveness, good and evil must be dealt with over time. A very important aspect of the good and evil problem is to recognize that human good without divine righteousness, is still good for nothingness. Part of divine righteousness in our willed works is to remain filled with the Holy Spirit during this mystery Church Age. It might be more appropriate intead of writing, "What I do know is that I need to trust Him because whatever the reason it has to be ultimately good." to instead write, "I need to trust Him because whatever His plan it is ultimately righteous." In His Holiness, when dealing with corruption, His righteousness demands justice. That justice, in the eyes of those who are scarred in sin, might very well appear bad and/or chaotic.

corrected formatting

Sin (disobedience to His Will) as an issue that isolates man from God (death, a state of existence involving separation) has already been dealth with by our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus on the Cross. Good and Evil have not been similarily dealt with because unlike sin, which was atoned by Christ and only requires an immediate act of faith for forgiveness, good and evil must be dealt with over time.

A very important aspect of the good and evil problem is to recognize that human good without divine righteousness, is still good for nothingness. Part of divine righteousness in our willed works is to remain filled with the Holy Spirit during this mystery Church Age.

It might be more appropriate intead of writing, "What I do know is that I need to trust Him because whatever the reason it has to be ultimately good." to instead write, "I need to trust Him because whatever His plan it is ultimately righteous." In His Holiness, when dealing with corruption, His righteousness demands justice. That justice, in the eyes of those who are scarred in sin, might very well appear bad and/or chaotic.