There's something far deeper going on here which has resulted in the different atmospheres in our Churches during the Liturgies. My familiarity with Latin Rite Liturgies in limited in the NO era so I claim no profound understanding of what the people are thinking during one of those Liturgies, but those Liturgies seem to me, as an outsider, to be far more concerned with the here and now and us than about worshipping the Triune Pantocrator on the Eighth Day, not in this world but rather in a place off the timeline with choirs of Seraphim and Cherubim "...six winged, many eyed." Latin Rite liturgies seem to me to be very "casual" when compared with a High Mass of the 1950s.
I freely admit that I do not fully understand the Latin phronema. I do understand that people feel free to dress down and that "banner art" seems to have replaced icons and statues. I know that people seem to view attendence at Mass to be an "obligation" which must be fulfilled rather than a joyous foretaste of theosis.
It would be helpful to me if someone, perhaps a convert from Orthodoxy to the Latin Rite, or vice versa, or even someone who moved years ago from the Latin Rite to a Byzantine Rite Church could explain to me what it is that Latin Rite Catholics experience when at Mass, what they are thinking as they approach the Eucharist, what they feel like touching God with their hands, why they feel that either they themselves or their fellow Latin Rite Catholics feel they can "dress down" for Mass, that sort of thing. I'm sure you think I'm trying to set something up here, but I assure you I am sincere. We are asked interminably about a reunion with the Church of Rome. +Bartholomeus and +JPII both encouraged us to get to know one another. It would help all of us "Orthodoxers" to know what you "get", beyond the obvious communion, from the Mass.
However, there are a few places where the Traditional Latin Mass is celebrated or the Anglican Use of the Roman Rite, and I have found these to be in some way very similar to my own significant experience of the Maronite Church and the Melkites. Those Latin masses (or English in the case of the Anglican Use of the Roman Rite) were marriages of heaven and earth where the Bridegroom swept me away as His own and I received Him with joy and trembling and the leaping of my heart, aching to be truly with Him at all times and in all places and for ever, where Cherubim and Seraphim cry Alleluia and the Most Pure and Holy Mother of my Lord and God welcomes me as her daughter with her tangible embrace.
All that I know pales in comparison to what I experience of the Most Holy Trinity through the venerable and ancient Liturgies of Holy Mother Church.
Petition, Adoration, Reparation, Thanksgiving. My prayer before Mass helps me to recollect myself. As I entered the Church (and I think a Church ought have VIP Status; Verticality,Iconography, Permanance) and Blessed myself with Holy Water, I began to leave mundanity and mediocrity behind.
. I address myself to all parts of the Mass and try to elevate my soul for what it is I am about to participate in.
I am a Redeemed Christian standing at the altar with Jesus offering the Perfect Sacrifice of the New Covenant to God as an act of propitiation and to call down upon us all the Graces necessary to speed us on the way to Salvation and I eat the New Covenant Meal, Jesus, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity so as to become more like Him and to advance theosis and to extinguish venial sins
I could add a lot more but that is, in essence, my understanding of what Mass is all about
Brother K, I don't think too many of my Christian brothers and sisters are as spiritually advanced as you so you have to cut them some slack :)
Bap Kennedy: VAMPIRE by Bap Kennedy Domestic Blues, 1998
You only come around in night
Well I really shoulda known
Serves me right
Never invite a vampire into your home
I m' not the worst, I'm not the best
I'm in between like all the rest
But you've got to go
Never invite a vampire into your home
*Brother K, most of us Christians are like the bolded text of Bap's song.
Not too many are going to appreciate/apprehend Liturgy as well as you do.
So, my desire is Liturgy which makes the Mysteries of our Faith inviting to the many absent a compromising secularization
I know we disagree about Liturgy being reformed to address a particular people/culture/epoch (What one could call the "accidents" of the Mass) but I don't think we disagree at all re the Substance of Liturgy- The D.L. is the action of Jesus as both Priest and Victim...And the Eucharist. D.L/Mass is both a Sacrifice and a Sacred Banquet and too infrequently, imo, the Church has failed to inform its members about this truth
This is a sincere and excellent question and one that should be posed to a catholic as they are leaving church. It would be challenging for those, like us, who are more theologically developed as a result of this forum :-) Seriously, and I'm sure others here would agree, the discussions in this forum are comparable to Theology 101, if no 102. It is through these discussions that we feel challenged to spend more time reading Scripture, the Catechism and the lives of the Saints.
That said, in my pre FR days, there was the pre and post VCII Latin Mass. Having had my faith formed for the most part, pre VCII (Baltimore Catechism), I can cite only my own impressions. From earliest childhood we were told that only the priest could touch the consecrated host. That message was burned into my brain as surely as if done with a branding iron. When post VCII, they began giving communion in the hand, I was absolutely scandalized, and still am. No matter how many times someone says that is the way it was done in the early church, one must also consider that over the span of centuries, the church fathers, through prayer and reflection, recognized the dignity and respect due to our Lord, present in the consecrated host, and changed that practice. We evolved theologically over time and in one fell swoop, reverted back to ancient times. In this regard, the Latin Church resolved distribution of the Eucharist to large congregations but dissolved the reverence. And with that slip down the slope, the other aspects followed, like proper dress, etc.
My heart is so much lighter now, watching reverence displayed by a holy priest and small congregation. Profound bows towards the Tabernacle, in recognition of the Real Presence. No one in the parish doubts it. A priest dropping to his knees, hands raised heavenward to call down the Holy Spirit to accept our offerings while the congregation chants - kyrie eleison - and no one doubts what is unfolding before our eyes. Receiving by intinction on the tongue with the words - "Receive the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins and eternal salvation" - and no one doubts this either. And remaining standing after communion until Abouna places the remaining hosts into the Tabernacle, profoundly bowing and closing the door before we sit down, is still one more example of the proper reverence due to our Lord. Truly, the Divine Liturgy is "heaven on earth".
"I freely admit that I do not fully understand the Latin phronema. I do understand that people feel free to dress down"
I think I understand it, but I've never had much success boiling it down.
Starting with JFK and his blue jeans and topsiders, America has suffered a trend toward the elevation of casual dress to a virtue.
The much overrated Bob Dylan wrote, "His clothes are dirty, but his hands are clean." This notion was taken further, perhaps unconsciously, to a presumption that if your clothes are clean your hands must be dirty. Of course, there's also the influence of leftists adopting the dress of "the proletariat."
In some circles today casual dress is worn proudly in inappropriate venues as a sign that one is important enough to get away with it and not, as the entertainment industry calls them, "A suit."
In part it was a mutiny against "the establishment," a defiant statement of disrespect. In part it was a rebellion against uncomfortable clothing, a statement that "My comfort is more important than showing respect by wearing uncomfortable clothing."
These larger social trends were brought into the Church during the uproar of the sixties, the express reason being that it's more important for a person to come to Mass than not to come because he has no decent clothes.
Today, it seems to be almost universally accepted in America that "Clothes don't matter. It's what's on the inside that counts." Once you accept that, it's a short step to, "Might as well be comfortable." I've been pretty thoroughly reviled right here on FR for defending the value of showing respect through dress.
If I had worn a suit to Mass on base tonight, I would have been the only one to do so. Not wanting to appear pharisaical or sanctimonious, I wear more casual attire that doesn't stand out. When I go to the early Mass at the Japanese Church, I wear a suit so as not to stand out.
BTW, the priest gave a homily on the establishment clause of the First Amendment, and got it right.