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To: x5452
Maybe you will take your argument to the Catholic church which, if what you are arguing IS true,

I'm not arguing and that's just one more fact that's lost upon you. I'm effectively refuting your bogus argument and you resent that.

would then need to excommunicate the eastern rite churches.

You are laughable. There are 22 Churches sui juris in six separate rites, five Eastern and one Western, that in union comprise the Catholic Church. The discipline in the West is for celibacy of all of those, with a relatively few dispensations granted under Pope John Paul IIs Pastoral Provision, ordained to the Priesthood. The discipline in the Eastern Rites are that married men may be ordained to the Priesthood but once ordained single Priests may not then get married. Bishops in the Eastern Rites are chosen exclusively from amongst celibates. Someone as learned as you claim to be on the topic should know all of this but you and I and everyone else reading this realizes that you aren't as learned as you want people to think you are.

Further your assertions are not facts no matter how vehemently you might make them.

Once again, I've stated facts not made assertions and you have demonstrated that you are ignorant of the topic as well as Sacred Scripture.

Still waiting for you to translate that statement.

31 posted on 10/13/2005 12:04:50 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Your assertions are based on a false book.


32 posted on 10/13/2005 12:05:37 PM PDT by x5452
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To: A.A. Cunningham

"1
1 2 3 Now in regard to the matters about which you wrote: "It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman,"
2
but because of cases of immorality every man should have his own wife, and every woman her own husband.
3
The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband.
4
A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.
5
Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control."

You would figure the Roman church would have taken that statement by Paul to heart given they've seen quite explicitly what happens when you leave the door open to Satan.


33 posted on 10/13/2005 12:09:05 PM PDT by x5452
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To: A.A. Cunningham; x5452
There are 22 Churches sui juris in six separate rites, five Eastern and one Western, that in union comprise the Catholic Church. The discipline in the West is for celibacy of all of those, with a relatively few dispensations granted under Pope John Paul IIs Pastoral Provision, ordained to the Priesthood. The discipline in the Eastern Rites are that married men may be ordained to the Priesthood but once ordained single Priests may not then get married. Bishops in the Eastern Rites are chosen exclusively from amongst celibates. Someone as learned as you claim to be on the topic should know all of this but you and I and everyone else reading this realizes that you aren't as learned as you want people to think you are.

You are absolutely correct!

As an RC practicing my faith in an Eastern (Maronite) Catholic Church, I am very impressed with their view of celibacy. The Orthodox in the forum oftentimes demean the Maronites as being too "latinized". However, the Maronites hitched their wagon to the pope many centuries ago and have enjoyed a 'symbiotic' relationship with Holy Mother Church. In return for their adhesion to the truths of the Catholic Church, they were given vestments, sacramentals (statues, stations of the cross, etc.), sacred vessels and 2 seminaries - one in Rome, the other in France. The Maronites strongly adhere to the rule of celibacy but, as the Patriarch pointed out last Friday, allow married men to become priests. What he did not explain, however, is the process entailed.

My Lebanese born, celibate Maronite priest did explain this to a group of us earlier this year. It is a painstaking process. Once a married man applies to become a priest, he and his family are put to a scrupulous examination of faith. The Maronite view is that a married man is responsible to his family 'first', to his parish second. If the applicant and family pass scrutiny, he is allowed into seminary and ordained a deacon. After a certain number of years, should the deacon decide to become a priest, he and the family are once again scrutinized. There must be a solid and strong foundation of faith and support for this man in order to serve his church and family. Father also explained that in the East, marriage vows are still taken quite seriously vs the West, where more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. That is totally unacceptable to the Maronites and the Church, hence the scrutiny. Once the applicant and family pass muster, he is ordained a priest. The next obstacle is assigning him to a parish. Times are tough in the Middle East and monies must go a long way. It is not unusual for parishioners to scrutinize the wife and children of their married pastor. Should they show up wearing fancy clothes, the weekly donations drop commmensurate with the quality of their garb. Sad to say but, it makes perfect sense.

Father went on to suggest that should the Latin Rite Church decide to open the doors to married men, it would take approximaely 100 years to prepare for this change, given the view towards marriage in the West. Just some food for thought.

42 posted on 10/13/2005 5:50:15 PM PDT by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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