[Alouette]

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Looks like Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionism need to make room for one more "branch of Judaism."

Oh that's right . . . people who believe in G-d (aside from the Orthodox) don't count as Jewish! And if they didn't need the Orthodox to maintain their own "Jewish" credibility, the Reconservtructionists would probably kick them out too!

[Peanut Gallery]

"When the Karaites didn't have a cantor, circumcision could be performed by a mullah,"

Wow. Just... wow.

[rmlew]

I think it is important to differentiate Karaylar (Tatar Karaites) from other Karaites such as those from Egypt or Poland who are clearly Jewish.

It is hard for an outsider to differentiate to between Crimean and Taman Karaylar and Rabbinates (the term "Krimchak" or more accurately "Qrymchaq" simply means Crimean in the Kipchak dialects.) Both speak closely related dialects of Crimean and Taman Kipchak. Both communities probably predate the Kipchak invasion of the area in the 12h century. There were Jews living in the Byzantine colonies of Doros and Theodosia well into thise period. The Khazar cities of Kerch and Samarkash(Tmutkhura) had Jewish population. (The Khazar nobility were Rabbinate Jews, but were quite tolerent of any refugees from the Byzantintium or Persia.) Both populations intermarried with Sephardic populations while Crimea was under Ottoman control.

Still, there are key differences. Karaylar have traditionally differentiated themselves from Jews, including Krymchaks. To escape Czarist persecution, they proposed that they were Turks of the Mosaic faith. (The reasoning is that as they were neither desceded from Saducees nor follow the practices of Pharisees, they should not be punished as "Christ Killers".) In the 20th century, Karaylar went so far as to claim that they were in fact Khazars, although much of their evidence is faud.
The break became irrevocable only during the Holocaust. While it made no difference in Lithuania or Galicia, the SS spared Crimean Karaylar. This was probably in defference to the Muslim Crimean Tatars. (The SS recruited Tatars) The fate of the Krymchaks was quite grim. At first, the Nazis killed the Ashkenazi Jews of Crimea. Then the Krymchaks were marked for death. While many Karaylar and even some Crimean Tatars hid Krymchaks, some Karaylar helped the SS. The Krymchaks intermarried with Ashkenazi Jews or from mixed families were annihilated almost to the person. After World War II, Stalin punished all populations that worked with the Nazis. Ironically, the surviving Krymchaks were rounded up and sent on a decimating captivity to Siberia. While all Tatars were eventually allowed to return, the Krymchak population was too small to sustain itself. A few Krymchaks were counted in the last Soviet surveys, but there is no evidence that any exist today. The dialect is considered dead.

Some of the claims in the article are questionable. Karaylar took converts, there just are none today. They are wary of Ashkenazi Jews and don't take converts from us. They don't take Muslim Tatar converts because it is suicidal to do so.

PS. IF you would like I could post some of the responses once I send this to other members of the Karaylar-L discussion group.