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To: NYer; Tantumergo
" Before I continue, are we all agreed on this definition?"

+Stylianos' definition is the one you choose? Interesting. Among the Orthodox he is often referred to as the "pagan poet" and when it was suggested that he be sent to America as Archbishop, the Church here rose up and even the Greek government warned off the EP from that very, very bad idea. I suspect that Tantumergo, and I know I, are using it in a more prosaic manner, namely to describe the worldview or the mindset of Eastern Christians as they view the world and live out The Faith as they have been taught by The Faith. You've heard me tell of my wife commenting that the people in my ancestral village "walk Orthodox". That's an observation of phronema. It develops by living The Faith throughout a lifetime among people who are doing the same thing and having a particular concept of Christianity become the defining raison d'etre of your existence. At a minimum, with Eastern Christianity (and maybe with Roman Catholicism too for all I know) it takes years to acquire if one comes to The Faith as an adult.

I doubt that Tantumergo is making any value judgments about an Eastern as opposed to a Roman phronema. I certainly wouldn't. But I can say that they are different and that the West and the East look at and react to or live out the same Mysteries of The Faith in very different, at times seemingly opposite, ways.

No one would ever, to my knowledge, assert that the Maronite Church has no phronema. Indeed it does, a very particular Maronite phronema quite unlike that of the other particular churches which make up The Church.

In general usage, which is to say not necessarily that which +Stylianos has come up with, you did not receive "phronema" from the Maronite Church on those Sunday's over a year ago. Someday you may develop a Maronite phronema, but that will only happen if you shed your Roman one. The two cannot exist together. To attempt to do that is a form of pride. What you did receive on those Sundays though, NYer, was a great gift from the Holy Spirit, a gift which if you are prayerful and diligent, will bring you to a new...and different... way of looking at The Faith which can lead to a new and different and, for you, better way of living your life.
10 posted on 10/09/2005 5:49:47 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

"That's an observation of phronema. It develops by living The Faith throughout a lifetime among people who are doing the same thing and having a particular concept of Christianity become the defining raison d'etre of your existence. At a minimum, with Eastern Christianity (and maybe with Roman Catholicism too for all I know) it takes years to acquire if one comes to The Faith as an adult."

Interesting you mention that. I stole a few moments last night to continue reading a book entitled "Mountain of Silence" by Kyriacos Markides. As I was reflecting on it, it was obvious to me that I'm green when it comes to eastern Christian spirituality.


14 posted on 10/10/2005 6:06:13 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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