Those of us "of an age" remember the "old ladies mumbling ther beads" during the Liturgy. They were there but they weren't part of the Liturgy, the work of the people. Just as we move towards theosis within and as a part of a Eucharistic community, we also do so as a Liturgical people.
What a comfort it is to read this! That is my "pre Vatican Council II" recollection from the Latin Rite. The old women praying the Rosary during Mass. The younger generation (those born post VCII) have elevated the pre VCII Mass to some sort of euphoric level. I witnessed it first hand and returned to it several years ago, fully expecting that perhaps I had not understood something from my own experience as a child. Stepping into the Church that morning to attend the Indult Tridentine Mass, I recognized that NOTHING had changed. Here were the women praying their rosaries during the Mass. Young families assembled in the pews and I 'relived' my own childhood watching the parents turn the pages in their children's missals. The kids were totally lost. The children were expected to behave like adults, "little soldiers" kneeling straight in their respective pews. They dared not utter a word, or turn a page without the approval of their parents. I couldn't wait to leave the church that day.
In our Maronite Church, I am the one suggesting that the woman's group assume the noble task of praying for our pastor and the community; take over the responsibility of cleaning the church and washing the altar clothes; and fulfilling the Patriarch's recommendation of expanding our understanding of the Syriac language. And I am not even a Maronite! Such a gift! Such a blessing! They all take it for granted, but not me. I have personally witnessed what happens when we neglect our heritage and seek only to have the Maronites acknowledge it.
As you commented on a different thread, the Eastern Catholic prelates are speaking out at this Synold with a clear, bold and noble voice. May the members of the Latin Church hear and heed their voices.
"The younger generation (those born post VCII) have elevated the pre VCII Mass to some sort of euphoric level. I witnessed it first hand and returned to it several years ago, fully expecting that perhaps I had not understood something from my own experience as a child. Stepping into the Church that morning to attend the Indult Tridentine Mass, I recognized that NOTHING had changed. Here were the women praying their rosaries during the Mass. Young families assembled in the pews and I 'relived' my own childhood watching the parents turn the pages in their children's missals. The kids were totally lost. The children were expected to behave like adults, "little soldiers" kneeling straight in their respective pews. They dared not utter a word, or turn a page without the approval of their parents. I couldn't wait to leave the church that day."
But you see, NYer, it wasn't really the Tridentine Mass that was the problem, but rather a centuries long inculcating of the people that they were simply individual, autononmous observers of the Mass. That is not what the Liturgy was ever meant, properly, to be. The Liturgy is just what its name says it is, the work of the people, not as individuals but as a community together. The problem lies in a mindset which took hold of the Western Church centuries ago and which, luckily, never got into Orthodoxy or all of the Eastern Rite Churches in communion with Rome. Your own Maronite Church, however, as your priest will tell you, became almost completely Latinized, something which of late, by the grace of God, that Church has been moving away from.
Not all of us younger Post-V2 Catholics want the Tridentine Mass to be a carbon copy of the liturgical culture of the 1950's.
I firmly believe in full liturgical participation. I have studied and mastered the Latin language, not just because I had to in High School, but because I believe it is necessary to know be better able to participate in ther Liturgy (and not rely on goofy translations).
We live in a mono-glot society where non-English is scorned. This mindset has and continues to infect many Catholics in addition to the population at large. I disdain this mentality. The easiest way to learn a language is to immerse yourself in it. This is very easy to do if one actually makes the slighest effort to follow the Mass actively.
Unfortunately, many of my Trad brethren have a "Low Mass" mentality or are simply indifferent to this. This issue of liturgical participation will continue to be a matter of contention in the traditional circles.
However, I would not characterize the younger generation as being for the good old days of Low Mass. In fact, it is my generation that is the most receptive to actively participating in the Tridentine Mass. All we need is good instruction and nudging from liturgically minded priests and other leaders of example.
And yes, the Latins do have a lot to learn from the East concerning liturgical participation. It is a sad fact of history that liturgical minimalism has infected the West.
NYER, I believe your experience of the TLM is accurate for the situation in Troy, NY. That would be a minimalist Indult setting, hardly an ideal TLM. Contrast this with a typical FSSP or SSPX Church. In these latter, you would discover a much richer (but not quite perfect) liturgical culture a la "Mediator Dei." In fact, this very reason for the differences in one TLM to another is why we are moving to NJ next year. We are going to be full time parishioners in a liturgically active, and diocesan TLM Church as opposed to the sorry minimalist Indult in Baltimore.
"Here were the women praying their rosaries during the Mass. Young families assembled in the pews and I 'relived' my own childhood watching the parents turn the pages in their children's missals. The kids were totally lost."
I have been to one SSPX Mass. It was in Tokyo, celebrated by a priest who has no domicile, but commutes from Tokyo to Osaka and the Philippines, subsisting primarily on the charity of those he serves.
As the SSPX has no structures in those areas, he carries his "Church" with him in large and heavy cases.
I arrived early, and was able to watch as he and some parishoners transformed an ordinary Japanese meeting hall with a tatami mat floor into a suitable space for a Mass.
There were only about twenty or twenty-five people there, but there was no problem with people being "lost" or not participating. Except, I think, a couple of the occidental adults were lost during the homily, which was in Japanese.
Frankly, I never understood what the problem is with the old ladies saying their rosaries during the Mass. How many hundreds of times have they heard it before? They could probably recite it. Are they closed off from the Graces of the Mass because they are not intently listening to another repetition?
The priest is celebrating the Mass. He is the one who has that authority. He is the one who speaks the words of consecration. The LOLs are there, they are praying, and they receive the eucharist. Where is the need to meddle with them? Why can't people just leave them alone?
And that goes for anybody else who does not wish to be outwardly demonstrative. Larry the Cable Guy wasn't that far off in his description (paraphrasing from memory): "Up, down, up, down, do a couple of shots, up, down, up, down, shake hands with everybody around you..."
If my physical infirmities allow me to kneel on a given day, that's the extent of the outward show I want to make, and I do that not for the people around me, but directly from me to Our Lord. I don't want to shake hands. I don't want to hold hands during the Pater Noster. I don't want to sing (or, in my case, croak). The NO tries to force you to be outwardly demonstrative.
I just figured out how to put into words one thing that really bothers me about the NO: It just **reeks** of busybodies who can't leave people alone but are driven to tell everyone else what they *must* do. LEAVE ME ALONE!.
And that's what I like about the old Mass. It leaves you free to commune with God in the way that suits you. You can follow the words of the Mass. You can drift off into a reverie about how something in the reading applies to your own life. You can just bask in Christ's presence. You can pray quietly for your own intentions. It doesn't try to be some hyper-regimented Chi-com-esque synchronized group performance.