Posted on 10/06/2005 6:54:00 AM PDT by NYer
This is not true. The bible states, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." A Christian filled with the Holy Spirit cannot be also simultaneously possessed by a demon or the devil. There is not one documented case.
Did not the devil test Jesus?
The priest wasn't talking about demonic possession in the excerpt you quoted from. He was talking about temptation, which is different. Everyone is tempted by the Devil and his minions. Why do you think Our Lord gave us an example for us by being tempted by the Devil too?
Did the devil possess Jesus?
Yes, but the movie is about possession is it not? And the point is that the girl was pious.
I'm a little scared to see this movie. Have you watched it? The Exorcist terrified me, it showed Satan in ways I have no words for. Shoulda never gone, it certainly didn't help my faith, just could'nt put it in the right place in my mind I guess. I can know and do know that Satan and hell exsists, but I don't think I need to see a movie about it to keep me right in life.
Note two things about Job: (1) He was not possessed but tested - and his faith held; (2) Satan had to get PERMISSION from God to test Job, which shows that God is greater than Satan - they are not equals.
Pious and perfectly pious are not one in the same. It is that chink of in perfection that allows the evil one access.
"What harm can the devil cause to the living? There are few books on the subject and a lack of common language. I will now attempt to define the words that I will use in this book.
Ordinary activity. This is "temptation", which is the most common activity of the demons, and it is directed against all men. When Jesus allowed Satan to tempt him, he accepted our human condition. I will not talk about this common diabolical endeavor, because the purpose of this book is to highlight Satan's "extraordinary activity", which can take place only if God so allows.
This second category can take six different forms:
1. External physical pain caused by Satan. We know of this from many lives of the saints. We know that Saint Paul of the Cross, the Curé of Ars, Padre Pio, and many others were beaten, flogged, and pummeled by demons. This external form of persecution does riot affect the soul; therefore with this type there has never been the need for an exorcism, only for prayers. Here I will dwell only on the other types of actions that directly affect exorcists.
2. Demonic possession. This occurs when Satan takes full possession of the body (not the soul); he speaks and acts without the knowledge or consent of the victim, who therefore is morally blameless. It is the gravest and most spectacular form of demonic afflictions, and it attracts the attention of producers of movies such as The Exorcist. According to the Ritual for exorcisms, some of the signs of possession include: speaking in tongues, extraordinary strength, and revealing the unknown. The man of Gerasa is a clear Gospel example of possession. To fix a set "model" for demonic possession would be a serious mistake; the affliction runs the gamut of symptoms and severity. For instance, I have exercised two totally possessed persons who remained perfectly still and silent during the exorcism. I could cite many other examples and as many different symptoms.
3. Diabolical oppression. Symptoms vary from a very serious to a mild illness. There is no possession, loss of consciousness, or involuntary action and word. The Bible gives us many examples of oppression; one of them is job, He was not possessed, but he lost his children, his goods, and his health. The bent woman and the deaf and dumb man who were cured by Jesus were not subject to total possession, but there was a demonic presence that caused physical discomfort. Saint Paul was most certainly not possessed by a demon, but he had a demonic oppression that caused an evil affliction: "And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me" (2 Cor 12:7). There is no doubting the evil origin of the affliction.
While possessions are still relatively rare today, we exorcists run into a great number of people who have been struck by the devil in their health, jobs, or relationships. We must make it clear that to diagnose and heal an oppression-related illness is not any easier than to diagnose and cure a person afflicted by full possession. The degree of gravity may be different, but the difficulty of the diagnosis and the amount of time involved in healing are the same.
4. Diabolic obsession. Symptoms include sudden attacks, at times ongoing, of obsessive thoughts, sometimes even rationally absurd, but of such nature that the victim is unable to free himself Therefore the obsessed person lives in a perpetual state of prostration, desperation, and attempts at suicide. Almost always obsession influences dreams. Some people will say that this is evidence of mental illness, requiring the services of a psychiatrist or a psychologist. The same could be said of all other forms of demonic phenomena. Some symptoms, however, are so inconsistent with known illnesses that they point with certainty to their evil origins. Only an expert and well-trained eye can identify the crucial differences.
5. Diabolic infestation. Infestations affect houses, things, or animals. This book will only mention the topic. I merely want to state that I will never use this term when I refer to persons. I will always talk about possession, oppression, and obsession.
6. Diabolical subjugation, or dependence. People fall into this form of evil when they voluntarily submit to Satan. The two most common forms of dependence are the blood pact with the devil and the consecration to Satan.
How can we defend ourselves from all these evils? A strict interpretation of the Ritual confines the use of exorcisms only to instances of true possession. However, as I stated before, the current Ritual fails to address many occasions in which an exorcist diagnoses an evil influence. In all cases when there is no possession, the usual means to obtain grace should be sufficient. These means are prayer; the sacraments; almsgiving; leading a Christian life; pardoning offenses; and soliciting the aid of our Lord, Mary, the saints, and the angels. I will now say a few words about the angels. I gladly end this chapter on the devil, Christ's adversary, by speaking about the angels. They are our great allies. We owe them a great debt, and it is a mistake to mention them as rarely as we do. Every one of us has a guardian angel, most faithful of friends twenty-four hours a day, from conception to death. He unceasingly protects us, body and soul, while we, for the most part, never think about him. We also know that each nation has its particular guardian angel and, probably, every community and family, although we are not certain on the two last points. We know, however, that the angels are a multitude, and their desire to help us is much greater than Satan's desire to destroy us."
The whole article is very interesting.
Fr. James Lebar: Yes, I would say so. I thought the movie was good; it presented things fairly.
That's high praise considering the source. I find the subject fascinating. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. OTOH, our society can certainly benefit from belief in the devil, because he really exists.
4. Diabolic obsession. Symptoms include sudden attacks, at times ongoing, of obsessive thoughts, sometimes even rationally absurd, but of such nature that the victim is unable to free himself
I'm convinced that I've gone through this several times, for periods of 3,4, and 5 months. In each case, an idea or ideology came over me that was absurd, but it was all-consuming, and made it very difficult for me to perform my normal duties. I believe that they were oppressions because I can remember when these things came over me like a wave of nausea. And I can remember how they lifted almost as instantaneously.
I fought them off as best I could, and I never let them prevent me from doing my duties, but I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone.
Indeed he does but, as evidenced by some of the above comments, who really believes it? As Fr. Lebar notes:
One of the reasons I'm willing to do interviews like this is so that this phenomenon comes to the attention of people, Catholic and non-Catholic, and they will be informed that
a: The devil exists,
b: He tries to trouble people, and
c: If he troubles people so much that he possesses them, they can be helped through exorcism.
Many years ago, a group of catholic HS girls gathered at a friend's house. It was a hot summer day. The house had no a/c. The girl's mother was outside, hanging laundry, as the girls took out a ouija board and began playing with it. One of the girls had a 'spirit guide' named EOT and he answered their silly questions. Suddenly, he spelled out WARNING, several times. The girls giggled. The planchet stopped moving. The girls prodded it with more questions but the planchet would not budge. Curious as to what was going on, one of the girls asked: "Is anyone there?" The planchet immediately shot to YES. "Who are you?", the girl asked. The planchet moved rapidly from one letter to another, spelling out words. The girls called the letters out while another girl repeated the letter back and wrote it down. It took a while to decipher the flow of letters, especially since the planchet was going so fast. Amazingly, if one letter was missed, the planchet returned to it.
The girl transcribing the text suddenly gasped. She had deciphered the jumble of letters. It spelled out the spirit's different names. The final phrase was "..... but my preferred call me Beelzebub".
The girls didn't believe this; it was just a silly game, right? But the planchet spun back into motion. The spirit beckoned one of the girls to meet him. He promised anything she wanted "includinged". The girl transcribing the text laughed at that word. "Just goes to show this is a game; he can't even spell", she said. But then she looked at it again .... this wasn't one word, but two. The spirit promised her anything she wanted "including Ed". The girl was totally infatuated with a young man she had met several weeks earlier and was desperately trying to track him down through friends and acquaintances. His name had not come up at all that day ... until that moment. The girls now realized this was no game; they were dabbling with evil.
Just then, the mother who had been hanging laundry walked into the house. She commented that it was cold inside and put on a sweater. As she stepped outside to hang more wash, the family cat began to walk in, arched its back, hissed and ran back outside.
The girls posed another question, to "test" the spirit. They asked: "Who is the most wicked person in this house?" and the spirit named the most innocent child. That was more than ample proof. The child was sent to fetch a Rosary. This was dropped on the planchet. With that, the planchet flew across the room and into the open fireplace.
This is a true story. I was the girl transcribing the text.
I just saw it the other night. It is not a horror movie in the sense that we see scarry stuff just for the sake of seeing horror.We see, during flashbacks in the priests trial, various things that happened to her during her possesion.
Yes, there is an exorcism scene.
This movie shows you that yes, the devil exists. The most disturbing part for me was when the demons were telling the priest their names. Very disturbing, who they were. (You have to see the movie to find out.)
It is more of a "cerebral movie" as the priest is this interview said.
I wouldn't be surprised. I think this sort of thing is most likely to happen to those who are actually striving for holiness, or towards perfection in the spiritual life like the saints, in order to confuse and discourage them. Too quickly do most people write these attacks off as "psychological" or "stress induced". A good confessor, knowledgeable about these things is the best guide, however these days it is difficult to find one.
I haven't heard that but I can't imagine a more powerful shield against the evil one than a perfect act of contrition and the Eucharist. Talk about well armed!
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