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To: jo kus
...people leave the Church not because of doctrinal disagreements, but because of "personal issues" - which would include a lack of being fed at a particular parish. There are, indeed, many parishes filled with the Spirit, having Bible studies, retreats, etc.. It is up to the laity to bring such ministries to the table....

In order for the laity to do so, they must first be educated well enough to know their need for such things. For example, only someone who already knows the value of the Bible, would even think about initiating a Bible study group. It's possible to be so ignorant that you don't even know what you don't know.

If I returned to Catholicism, I would NOW have that knowledge as a result of 20+ years in Evangelicalism, and would probably be as active a layman in the Catholic church as I have been in the Evangelical world. But I wouldn't have ever got that idea from the Catholicism that I knew (which, admittedly, was neither optimal nor complete.)

One can even considering going to an Eastern Rites Catholic Church, which recognizes the Bishop of Rome as the earthly leader of the Church.

There's a couple of them in the area. One is actually just about around the corner from my job. I hear they use the beautiful Orthodox liturgy and rituals. That would be cool.

In the Ritual for the Reception of Baptized Christians into the Full Communion of the Catholic Church, the candidate recites the Nicene Creed

With or without the filoque? :-) Just messin' with ya...

205 posted on 10/14/2005 10:00:56 PM PDT by Rytwyng
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To: Rytwyng
In order for the laity to do so, they must first be educated well enough to know their need for such things.

I think both the laity and the Church have faults to share in this. First, the laity is not prevented from reading Scripture, praying, reading the Catechism, or any other such things. One must take initiative - it is like anything in life. You get out of it what you put in to it. Many Catholics of the past had the idea that they didn't have to do anything but their "duty" to appear at Mass. The Latin Mass didn't help foster the idea of participation...

This stems in part from the development of how grace and nature works. It is a long story, but grace, until the mid 20th century, was seen as something added on to our nature - and generally more to only the religious. This caused several problems that are just now being expunged. First, Jansenism - a ritualistic adherence to rules of law - a heresy - has had a lingering effect up to Vatican 2. We have both probably experienced it from our days of Catholic school. There was also the prevalent idea that the laity had a secondary role in divine worship, teaching the faith, and actually practicing evangelization. This was felt a job of the religious - who generally were thought of as the prospective saints. This touches on hundreds of years of attitudes and reflections on the relationship of nature and grace - as well as a reaction to the Protestant Reformation (esp. private Bible reading).

Thus, it is difficult to point the finger entirely at anything. However, our faith tells us that God guides even the little everyday things in our lives. Thus, we know that such an all-encompassing thing that has happened in our Church for the last several hundred years is ALSO under Divine Providence. God brings good out of even the greatest of evils. I think the Church is coming out stronger since Vatican 2, returning to its roots on many critical issues, namely, the call to the laity to participate in such things as teaching the faith and conducting small faith communities that go out and perform works of mercy. The idea that religion is only for the religious, that God is to be separated from the secular world, is falling away. God is to be part of OUR ENTIRE LIVES! Not just the one hour Sunday Mass. And until local parishes start preaching that, it is not surprising that people will continue to be dead to the message of Christ. I see the Church slowly turning a corner. Things are not the same that they were 20 years ago, that's for sure...

I have found that by becoming active in a ministry, my life with Christ has moved forward in leaps and bounds. I imagine you, too, have experienced this. It takes movement from the person, but he must be motivated to take that step. I believe that the Church's writings of the last 40 years has been calling the laity to action. It has taken awhile to filter down to the grass-roots, but it is moving forward.

I would highly suggest you go to at least an Eastern Rites Catholic Church. The liturgy is beautiful - when one understands what is going on - the reasons for this or that movement, it really moves the heart and brings to mind that the Mass is the joining of heaven and earth as Christ continuously offers His one-time Sacrifice to the Father, interceding for us. We, as part of the Body, join in that offering, giving of our own sacrifices and joining them to Christ's to the Father. For a time, we "enter the throne-room of heaven". It is amazing when one actually realizes what is happening.

Christ said that the truth will set you free. I pray that you continue to seek the Truth. I understand your reasons for leaving - I did to for awhile. But when one searches for the Truth of Christ, I believe it leads eventually to the only Church that has existed since the time of Christ. I pray that you realize Christ to His fullest as you continue your walk in Him.

Brother in Christ

206 posted on 10/15/2005 8:19:35 AM PDT by jo kus
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