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To: Kolokotronis
After the Fall and before the Resurrection, man did not have access to theosis or even the potential for it. Mankind and all creation had become so distorted by sin that theosis was quite impossible.

I think men have always had the opportunity to be righteous, even in the OT, as God has always reached out to men. For example, David was the apple of God's eye. They certainly had a special relationship. While I agree that this goes beyond what I should be teaching at RCIA (it is confusing enough talking about the eternity of God compared to us!), I think the Church does teach that the OT prophets are in heaven and had special relationships with God, as God had foreknowledge that His Son would die on the cross and bring about the recapitulation and atonement of man. We'll stick with your description and chronology, though!

You mention icons. I have one here at home, a small one of Jesus the Pantocrator on wood. How can I use these icons, though, for teaching? I use it for prayer. Where can I get quality images of other icons? Thanks in advance.

Damnation at the Final Judgment, true Death, the Fathers teach, is not a result of some adding up of good and evil deeds in a balance, but rather a measure of how much like Christ we have become in our lives.

LOL!!! Trust me, I have been in several long discussions on this very issue with some of our brother Protestants. No need for that reminder! It is ALL based on Christ's work of Atonement. As you know, Catholics have had to deal with this issue in more detailed manner because of the Reformation. Trent is clear on what the Church has always taught (before the Schism, of course) - that we can do nothing good without God's graces.

Catechumens must spend at least six months, usually a year or more in regular, weekly sessions with the priest where they learn about the Faith through reading of the Fathers and study of the writings of great, almost always monastic, spiritual fathers. They are of course expected to attend the Divine Liturgy on Sundays.

Our course work revolves around the Catechism and Scripture, as the Catechism is a good synthesis of what we believe. We don't have them go to Mass with us for awhile yet, and they don't stay for the Eucharist until Easter Vigil. This is based on the ancient tradition that catechumens were not to experience the mysteries until prepared. Then, we will have a few mystagogy classes that describe what is happening during the sacraments. Our parish is about 2800 families, so it is large, I think. I would prefer a smaller community, but hey, what can we say? We, too, have great parties. I think that is a Catholic/Orthodox trademark - God created all things good, to be used and enjoyed - in moderation.

I like Cyril of Jerusalem, I have read some of his works on Catechesis. I haven't read Athanasius on the Incarnation, but I want to (too much to read!). Occasionally, I read Chrysostom on Sundays, as I have the "Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers" collection, and he is prominent, of course. I have a Maximus the Confessor book that I will get to SOME day! I try to read a spiritual book along with theology. Currently reading Henry Suso, a German monk of the 1200's. I agree that teaching, though, is only a small part of the process. That is why I personally stress the relationship of the sponsor to the catechumen. We really try to get the sponsors to do a lot of stuff with them, rather than just showing up for the rituals.

Well, got to go. We are having a party after Mass for our patron saint, St. Francis of Assisi, so I got some work over there to do today - and some partying!

Take care,

Brother in Christ

46 posted on 10/02/2005 10:07:47 AM PDT by jo kus
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To: jo kus

"I think the Church does teach that the OT prophets are in heaven and had special relationships with God, as God had foreknowledge that His Son would die on the cross and bring about the recapitulation and atonement of man."

Well, of course they are with God. The Church in the East regularly celebrates the feast days of the major figures of the OT. But they were not with God until Christ shattered the gates of Hell and destroyed the power of Death over them. Again, the Icon of the Resurrection is a great didactic device among other things.

"You mention icons. I have one here at home, a small one of Jesus the Pantocrator on wood. How can I use these icons, though, for teaching? I use it for prayer. Where can I get quality images of other icons? Thanks in advance."

Check your Freepmail!


47 posted on 10/02/2005 10:16:10 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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