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To: Quester
There is no scriptural teaching that the devil believes the testimony of scripture

Isn't it common sense? Satan is a highly intelligent demon. If he is the father of lies, he must know what the truth is. He is fully aware of the truth of the Gospel, and tries to get us to deny it through our thoughts or actions. Thus, the devil is fully aware of the testimony of Scripture. Does he trust in it? Does he live it? NO! But according to your previous definition of saving faith, you indicated that belief in the Scriptural testimony was sufficient. That is not enough of a qualification - unless you care to redefine what "belief" is

My friend ... a man's faith is the catalyst ... everything else is a result of God's response to that faith.

FAITH is no more a catalyst than DEEDS! Both come from God. God HIMSELF is the catalyst. Certainly, as Eph 2:8 says, we must have faith (a gift) before our works become "good". But BOTH come from God. Thus, God grants us grace to work and to desire to do His Will. God HIMSELF comes to us, infusing us with His Spirit, enabling us to have both faith AND deeds.

Note in Eph 2:8-10, it notes both faith and works as coming from God. He doesn't say that faith brings out good works, but that we do good works THROUGH faith - it is PRESUMED that one has faith to be able to do good works. In the Gospels, when Jesus mentions ONLY works as necessary for salvation, such as the Rich Young Man or Matthew 25 parables, it is presumed that the person to be saved had ALREADY believed in God and trusted in His promises - thus, the young rich man asks "what must I do for eternal salvation" - presuming that God was the one to provide it.

Again, faith AND works are necessary for salvation. Faith is not a catalyst, although it IS necessary. When you say that Paul teaches that Faith is a key, I take it more like this: in baseball, you must touch first base before you can move on to second base. Before you can do meritorious works that are pleasing to God, you FIRST must have faith. Romans is quite clear that we cannot EARN salvation - against the Judaizers who thought external works WITHOUT faith was good enough. Wrong! One must have faith first, but works does not necessarily follow. We rely on God's grace in BOTH cases - and respond in both cases. Back to Genesis 22, would God have considered Abram righteous if he decided "I love God, I trust in Him and His promises, but I'm not killing my son. He must be mistaken" That certainly was a legitimately possible response. As God inspired Abram to trust God, He also inspired Abram to set out on that sad three day journey to offer up his son...

By the way, I am enjoying this conversation. It has been quite stimulating.

Brother in Christ

315 posted on 09/29/2005 4:30:15 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: jo kus
There is no scriptural teaching that the devil believes the testimony of scripture.

Isn't it common sense ?


You're speaking of human wisdom ?

I'd wager that we both know what that's worth, don't we ?

Satan is a highly intelligent demon. If he is the father of lies, he must know what the truth is. He is fully aware of the truth of the Gospel, and tries to get us to deny it through our thoughts or actions. Thus, the devil is fully aware of the testimony of Scripture. Does he trust in it? Does he live it? NO! But according to your previous definition of saving faith, you indicated that belief in the Scriptural testimony was sufficient. That is not enough of a qualification - unless you care to redefine what "belief" is.

I believe that Satan is, actually, somewhat self-deluded. His pride blinds him to much truth.

OTOH ... I have no problem redefining my definition of faith to include 'acceptance' of the truths of God.

338 posted on 09/29/2005 7:37:50 PM PDT by Quester (If you can't trust Jesus, ... who can you trust ?)
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