Did God Whack New Orleans? A Theological Inquiry (Don Feder Alert)

Don Feder.com ^ | 09/19/05 | Don Feder

[The Grammarian]

Why does Feder think everything is always about the Jews?

Messiah complex? < /irony>

[goldstategop]

Amen. One way or another we are subject to God. And one day, when Death comes as it must to all men, we will face an accounting before the Heavenly Tribunal. Now is the time to make a difference, while we're still alive to make one.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[Palladin]

Good one!

[Palladin]

Vey iz mir! Don is always trying to out-Job Job.

[Thinkin' Gal]

I was just browsing audio Bible CDs. One narrator's voice was way too fast and thus quite irritating. So I went to this one, and clicked on the Media Player sound sample. Much better. At the same time, I clicked to read this thread.

Talk about appropriate background audio. Amos 3:1-12... just a coincidence? That's some coincidence.

[Thinkin' Gal]

Jesus said to them..."those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

And then there's...

Nahum 3:8 Art thou better than populous NO, that was situate among the rivers, that had the waters round about it, whose rampart was the sea, and her wall was from the sea?

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Yeah. Don Feder is awesome politically; and as a very devout Jew, he has a lot of insight into the nature and attributes of God (sadly, better than some Christians). I love that.

Note: I believe there is only one way to heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ, who was the promised seed of Abraham through whom all people from all nations are blessed (Gen. 18:18). They need only to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and they will be saved. He was the perfect lamb of God; and through the shedding of His blood and His resurrection from the dead, forgiveness and new life are offered to all mankind, both Jew and non-Jew. I want to give no impression that I believe otherwise.

I have no problem with his right to write this article nor does it offend me in any way. However, I do not buy into any of that numerology stuff, and I think the mystical practices of Kabbalah (is that where the numerology stuff comes from?) are very dangerous and unbiblical.

Still, it's interesting to know his perspective and he does make some decent theological points in this column. I also just greatly respect him. If a person could be saved by being good, he would certainly be a candidate. He can represent me on political or moral issues any time.

I am curious why anyone would focus on numerology when the OT is so full of more obvious prophecy. I don't get that.

[Safrguns]

You forgot a theory...

5. There is a God who usually allows nature, or individuals, to follow their own course or path. But sometimes he intervenes to PREVENT a specific outcome.

When a child leaves home, he/she also leaves the protection the parents provided. When we walk away from God, we in many ways open ourselves to the same types of vulnerabilities.

[Rosary]

Good Post..God ..How many know Him,how many ????
Wrath of God..Katrina-Rita---pray the Rosary!

[Pessimist]

You know, I was just waiting for this assertion...

[ml/nj]

this incoherant column is crap.

So that's it, crap?

I don't agree with the notion that G-d caused the hurricane because of the increasing decadence here, but it is a thought provoking column. Maybe you've never read the stuff Feder refers to here? Or maybe you think all those people who have paid attention over all those years to these texts are just stupid? Or Feder doesn't understand? And you do?

ML/NJ

[the-ironically-named-proverbs2]

The same verse from Luke is always posted on these threads to supposedly refute the idea that God might send/allow disasters to get His peoples attention to turn their hearts back to Him. I think that the point Jesus was making had to do with individuals vs. nations. In fact, what Jesus said in Luke makes the point of the article above.

How about some context:

Luke 13:1-9
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

compare:

Isa 5:1-7
1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

---------------------------------------------

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun....

[Sam Cree]

I used to like Feder, but have just decided not to convert to Orthodox Judaism.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Of these theories, the fourth seems the most plausible.

No, the second does...by far. That's why the Founding Fathers held to it - and built the American system of government around it. Handicapping the chances of God intervening one way or the other in Earthly matters is the ultimate form of taking His name in vain.

Feder's atavistic viewpoint is cruel and mean-spirited toward the good people of the Gulf states, and he is going to get a well-deserved roasting for it.

[Thinkin' Gal]

For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel...

Which goes right back to the Amos audio. The opening statement:

Amos 3:1-2 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, 2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

The Hebrew spelling of America =

alef mem resh yud quf hei

alef mem = mother (Strong's #517)

resh yud quf hei = vain, empty, idle (#7386)

It looks to be grammatically correct (req taking the feminine suffix hei)

Vain mother of _____. Must be just another coinkidink...

[Capt. Tom]

So that's it, crap?

I don't agree with the notion that G-d caused the hurricane because of the increasing decadence here, but it is a thought provoking column. Maybe you've never read the stuff Feder refers to here? Or maybe you think all those people who have paid attention over all those years to these texts are just stupid? Or Feder doesn't understand? And you do?

Feder is speculation on the motivation of supernatural beings or being. To do that is non-sense IMHO.

Feder gives only several possibilities when there could be an endless amount of possibilities. One could be ALLAH is mad at us infidels and is punishing us.

Or maybe there are 5 supernatural beings and they voted to send the storms on a 3 to 2 vote or maybe ............???

Why would Feder even get involved in writing this stuff? - tom

[RochesterFan]

This ignores the clear teaching of Scripture

1. Gen 50 - Joseph tells us that God ordained his suffering to save many people.
2. Luke 13:1-5 - Christ tells audience that those who died in two recent calamities were not more sinful than others, but that unles the hearers repented they too would prerish. That is, God uses calamity to get our attention and produce repentence (again a good thing.)
3. Acts 2:22-25 - The Father ordained the horrible death of Christ to show that death could not hold Him (and ultimately for the forgiveness of sinners, v. 37)

In summary, God has a perfect plan where he uses the wilful disobedience of man and natural calamities to produce circumstances that produce the repentance and ultimate salvation of all who believe in Christ. It is a wonderful plan by a holy, sovereign God. God's revealed plan is far superior to Don Feder's poor caricature.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Amen, RF.

"Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,

And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.

Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.

I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.

They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD." -- Jonah 2:1-9

[Lexinom]

For all of our virtues, modern Americans are almost childlike in their innocence. Recall that after 9/11, "God Bless America" was on everyone's lips. (Stickers with the slogan sprouted on bumpers like wildflowers on the prairie after a spring rain.)

Childlike innocence...

Teenage girls wearing pants and short skirts. Men with no discipline or work ethic yet willing to satiate their strong hormonal urges... The resulting offspring executed by unanesthetized dismemberment... 1.3 million times a year.

Innocence...

[sinkspur]

I often like DOn Feder, but this article makes me cringe.

Yep. He makes the mistake many "religious" people make: imputing human attributes and prejudices to God.

This "God removes his blessing" and "God is sending a message" stuff is pure nonsense. Nature works its way, according to the laws of nature and physics.