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Boom Goes The Dynamite
Midwest Conservative Journal ^ | 9/13/2005 | Christopher Johnson

Posted on 09/20/2005 5:43:34 PM PDT by sionnsar

Sometimes reading the Letters section of Episcopal Life can be more fun than a barrel of self-righteous monkeys.  E. L. Glynn of Grove City, Pennsylvania just hates it when Third Worlders forget their place.

I see that our brothers (did not notice any sisters being mentioned in the article) of Asia and Africa are embarrassed by the presence of open homosexuality in the American churches. Tough. I was taught a song as a child: "Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. Red and yellow, black and white, all are precious in his sight."

Our black and yellow brothers want to put in a clause that checks their bedroom status before allowing Jesus to love them. No way. I hope that those people will not be upset when they find themselves outside the Anglican Communion. Am I the only one who thinks it is possible that homosexuality is God’s answer to rampant reproduction? In an overcrowded world, people who chose nonreproductive relationships should be welcome.

As far as I can see, the only time someone else’s sexuality is my concern is if I want to have a relationship with a person. Trying to choose how others live is not part of Christianity; loving our neighbor is.

"Black and yellow brothers," Massa?  Who are you, William Howard Taft?  But yeah, you're the only one who thinks that about homosexual activity, E. L.  That's a really creative interpretation, I'll have to grant you that much.

As far as being upset about being "outside the Anglican Communion," we won't be upset at all.  Should have happened a long time ago.  But here's a question for you; how will you feel when conservative Anglicans finally decide that Canterbury is a bauble they can no longer afford, walk away, form a growing and vigorous international Anglican body and turn the Anglican Communion into scarcely more than a pseudo-historical Elks Club? 

Mr. Tom Bradley of Boise, Idaho thinks conservative Anglicans shouldn't do that at all.

I’m alarmed by Doug LeBlanc’s statement in his article of June, 2005: "Even as I regret this separation ... I would have voted for it."  Parish communities have an obligation, in my opinion, to remain committed to all issues from within the American Episcopal Church and not as an interested third party, or member of the Anglican Communion, without the Episcopal Church.

I find far more compelling his statement that "the Episcopal Church and Diocese of Kansas will be poorer in spirit without Christ Church." This goes to the heart of the issue that present and future issues faced by the Episcopal Church will be more effectively discussed by one communion and one body in Christ. Naysayers are more effective within the national and worldwide communion and not in spite of it. I would not have voted for this proposal.

Sucks when "naysayers" start using words like "apostasy," handing you the keys and setting up on their own, doesn't it, Tom?  Particularly when they can stay in ECUSA, double their pledges and see their opinions steamrolled.  The Rev Hanns Engelhardt of Karlsruhe, Germany riffs on terrorism.

Richard Basta (“Terrorism is plain evil,” Letters, June) calls what Madeleine Albright wrote "rubbish." But he himself totally fails to see that what we choose to put the general label "terrorism" on has more than one face.

Not all suicide bombers in the Holy Land act out of religious fundamentalism. Most of them are motivated by anger provoked by permanent humiliation and the denial of reasonable prospects for their future by Israeli forces. And the United States has done nothing to make the Israeli Government commit itself to a just peace, which would mean to recognize -- as the ultimate goal of the peace process -- an independent Palestinian state, on equal footing with the State of Israel. Separating the two by the “green line,” would leave more than three quarters of the country in Israeli hands. Regarding the permanent expansion of Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory, the United States has nothing but empty words, which everybody in Israel knows may be disregarded without consequences.

If two-thirds of the territory of the United States had been attributed to the American Indians by the United Nations, the rest of the country occupied by them and the white population treated by the occupation forces as the Palestinians are treated by the Israeli forces, and if there were a widespread opinion among the Indians that white Americans were essentially Europeans and should go back to Europe if they wished to lead a decent life -- I should very much like to hear what Richard Basta would say if some white Americans would turn to violence. I suspect he would try to "understand them."

Still bent about 1939-1945 aren't you, Hanns?  Why the United States owes a state to a people who only came into existence in 1967, supported Saddam Hussein twice and jubilantly celebrated 9/11 is unclear to me but I'm not ordained.  Actually, I know perfectly well what the reason is and you do too.  Rory McCorkle of Lancaster, Pennsylvania wuvs Episcopal inclusiveness DIS MUCH!

I am a young Episcopalian. We are a dying breed in many regards. However, the openness the Episcopal Church has shown to all people has enlivened many other young people I know.

Based upon recent figures, approximately 60 percent of college age people support equal rights for homosexual couples. A slight majority believes that people are born gay. The Episcopal Church’s recognition of equality is a bold and brave step toward the inclusion of all. Do recall that Christ also accepted everyone, because we are all sinners and have fallen short of God’s glory.

The Windsor Report has called for a time of open conversation about human sexuality. It is my hope that throughout the country and globe, Anglicans are considering both sides of this issue, respectfully and with much prayer. Exclusion of either side will serve nothing but schism.

For my part, I've never been particularly attracted to hanging out with a group of people who don't believe much of anything at all.  If someone ever said to me, "Wake up early on one of your days off, come to our church and worship God.  Or don't worship God at all, makes us no never mind," I'd pass.  Douglas Marshall-Steele of Milton, Deleware thinks I'd do that because I'm a bigot.

The more unlike ourselves we perceive others to be, the easier it is to hate them. Thus, for example, Nazis created the fiction that Jews were a subspecies. In this country, the full humanity of Native Americans and African Americans was denied by those who killed and enslaved them. Ultimately the only rationale for denying full rights to any group is the underlying belief that they are not quite human or at least not equal.

The currently despised minorities, gays and transgendered people, suffer a similar reaction as we ask to be included in every social construct. We seek legal security for our families, nondiscriminatory employment and military service, protection from physical assault and real equality in our houses of worship. All of these constructs are so integral to society as to be taken for granted by the majority.

But the response of too many is to frantically and even rabidly deny these rights to gays and transgenders, lest the picture of the hopelessly depraved and degenerate subspecies fades. What might happen if we realized that we are all more alike than otherwise?

Sadly, it needs to be said: We are as fully American as you are. And we are as fully human.

Nobody's ever said that you weren't human, Doug, and you know that. 

But how are you coming on that actual evidence that homosexuals are a separate type of human being just like whites and blacks and females?  Some of us have been waiting a long time for something a whole lot more empirical than just your word for it.  Jim Rigas of Northbrook, Ilinois hits a few more ECUSA hot buttons.

I was touched by the “passionate perspective” of Doug LeBlanc in “The parting of friends” (June). Not a single word was said about the cause for the congregation’s sad parting: the refusal to admit that homosexual men, women and, yes, boys and girls also, are God’s creation and as such should be lovingly embraced rather than hatefully cast out of our lives and churches as sinners. Sinners, only because 2000 years ago Paul quoted out of context a few verses from Leviticus’ author of 700 years earlier to arrive at his hateful conclusions. And yet this is the same Paul who pronounced that the Torah had been superseded by Jesus’ new covenant at the cross. So compare Paul’s words on homosexuality with what Jesus said on the subject: nothing.

Throughout its 2,000-year history, the church has pilloried and burned at the stake thousands of God’s creatures on the pretext of trying to save their souls, while in reality it was merely trying to control their thoughts. Nothing seems to have changed since the days of Galileo. Today’s church still keeps its eyes closed to science and outside knowledge, insisting instead that it alone can define the truth. No wonder that so many thinking people are finding the church to be irrelevant.

No surprise there, slick.  So Paul wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit then?  I guess we can deep-six that part about there being no male or female, no Jew or Greek, no slave or free

If Paul got the one wrong, chances are he messed up the other.  Any chance you guys can come up with some new material any time soon?  And finally, the Rev Geoffrey Armstrong of Sequim, Washington tosses around the I word some more.

Due to Bishop [Gene] Robinson’s consecration, numbers of us now consider breaking from our denomination. I, for one, fail to understand why. I am alarmed that such a schism would heavily impact our numbers and cause other unnecessary problems. Years ago, I had a good friend, Marty. An office co-worker, he was a Greenwich Village homosexual. Also, he was a fine, sensitive, intelligent, caring human being, heavily into music and writing.

Some of us would often joke with him about his sexual orientation. He always took it with a smile. When I left for another job, he signed my card “… from a member of the alternative lifestyle.” You know, all of us in the office loved Marty … for himself, for the grand, kind, frank and outgoing person he was.

People, people, please! Our Episcopal denomination is a strong one, and so much of that strength derives from our inclusiveness. We have room for all the Martys in this world. Moreover, we need them … as friends in the pews, as clergy and even as bishops. They are God’s people, just as we heterosexuals are. The big question is: What would Jesus say to us now with respect to this controversy?

I feel a T-shirt/coffee mug/tote bag coming on.

TOPICS: Mainline Protestant

1 posted on 09/20/2005 5:43:35 PM PDT by sionnsar
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To: ahadams2; Fractal Trader; Zero Sum; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; coffeecup; Paridel; keilimon; ...
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by sionnsar and newheart.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans:

Humor: The Anglican Blue (by Huber)

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

2 posted on 09/20/2005 5:47:08 PM PDT by sionnsar (†† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity! || Iran Azadi)
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To: sionnsar
Our black and yellow brothers want to put in a clause that checks their bedroom status before allowing Jesus to love them. No way.

Jesus loves the sodomites - no question about that.

The problem is the sodomites hate Jesus.

3 posted on 09/21/2005 7:12:06 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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