[HarleyD]

While I'm sure all these arguments have been going back and forth for over 2000 years I doubt if we'll ever solve anything here. But I did find the article I posted in post #123 to be especially interesting and educational. I'd be interested in hearing the other view.

[HarleyD]

BTW-I'm skimming through Iraeneus tonight to verify some of these statements. Given that Iraeneus lived after John and had no direct contact with John, most of what Iraeneus has to say about John is hearsay at best. However there was a very interesting quote from Iraeneus that discusses the Nicolaitane followers:

"3. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practise adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: “But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.”"

Chapter XXVI.—Doctrines of Cerinthus, the Ebionites, and Nicolaitanes.

Please note this is consistent with what is stated in the article in #123 about the Nicolaitanes. If we accept what Iraeneus states here, then Nicolas was one of the first people in the church directly appointed by the apostles. The rise of the heresy springing from Nicolas would have been early and put down at the Jerusalem council as is stated in the article and scripture. Thus, for it to be mentioned in Revelations most likely places the date of early, not late as is stated, giving credence to the article in 123.