Catholic Caucus: Mary, The Power of Her Name [The Most Holy Name of the Blessed Virgin Mary]

Holy Wounds Apostolate ^ | unknown | Holy Wounds Apostolate

[NormB]

First, you don't understand the Bible, which you read without the bebefit of the patristic guidance.

Which you keep pointing out because you cannot defend the practices of the RCC with the word of God. Also, I have no doubt you could point out a miriad of sources on the web to support your position, which you obviously cannot argue with the word itself. Also I don't know what a bebefit is. Wasn't he in Star Wars?

[Diego1618]

The only verse that I find that has the phrase "full of grace", is John 1:14

Acts 6:8 "Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power......"

[ScubieNuc]

Good point.

So I guess that must mean that Stephen was without sin also.(sarcasm)

[Diego1618]

Remember the words of her cousin Elizabeth as recorded in Luke's Gospel? "Blessed are you amongst women..

Yes, that is correct. Elizabeth did say those words.

What about Judges 5:24 where Jael is called Most blessed of women?????

[annalex]

miriad of sources on the web to support your position

St. John Damascene is not a "source on the web", -- his is a formative theology for all educated Christians.

The fact remains that you would not let an image of Christ in your house. Denial of Mary is denial of Christ.

[Diego1618]

If you must read the Bible in English and on your own, -- something I would caution against

Acts 17:11,"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

The scriptures they examined were of course the Old Testament.....but scriptural indeed.

Why would you caution someone against doing this?

[annalex]

In order to understand, and benefit from, the scripture three rules must be in place.

• The scripture must be understood in the context and in the mindset in which the human historical author wrote it. This, of course, applies to analysis of any text. This usually requires a familiarity with the original language and culture.
• The scripture must be interpreted according to the authority of the early Church fathers. That is because they operated with the knowledge of live unwritten apostolic tradition that was handed down to them by Christ. If you read the scripture and arrive to a conclusion not compatible with the prectices of the early Church, you should know that your private interpretation is invalid.
• The interpretation of the scripture must agree with the teaching of the living Magisterium. That is because of the power to bind and loose given by Christ to the Apostolic Church, which exercises it today.

Outside of these guidelines you are more likely to be lost than helped by reading the scripture. It is, of course, necessary to hear the Word proclaimed in the course of the Liturgy of the Mass, which is the proper context for understanding of the Scripture. On the other hand, if these guidelines are respected, then a private study of the Bible becomes a source of knowledge and grace, and will enrich your spiritual life.

[Diego1618]

These verses show us that some people will believe in Christ and receive everlasting life after they die,

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

The prior verse specifically says "At that time your people, everyone whose name is found in the Book of Life, will be delivered." This is describing a future resurrection and does not speak of people being with the Lord at this time.

There are, however, biblical accounts of two men that left the earth without dying; I think they were Enoch and Elijah

With regards to Enoch...he is still dead. (Hebrews 11:13) Elijah was taken up to "heaven" in a whirlwind.(II Kings 2:11)....a further verse describes what really did happen. Verse 15-16 "The prophets from Jericho said "Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in another valley." In II Chronicles 21::12 Jehoram receives a letter from Elijah the Prophet. This is ten years after he was taken up into the air in a fiery chariot and then put back down. You can see the time line in II Kings 1:17-18.

John 3:13,"No one has gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

I believe your statement , or someone that had agreed with you said "they are more alive now, being with the Lord, then we are"....or something like that. I have just never been able to find a scripture indicating anyone is now in heaven. I do believe in a future resurrection and of course would welcome anyone's scripture reference giving proof that anyone(including Mary) is now there.

[Diego1618]

Outside of these guidelines you are more likely to be lost than helped by reading the scripture

I normally just pray to the Father and ask his Holy Spirit to guide me in my study....in Jesus' name. He lets me know when I'm wrong.

[annalex]

Well, speaking of wrong, Acts 6:8 (Steph) does not say the same thing as Luke 1:28

Stephanos de pleres pisteos kai dynameos ...

"with fullness of faith and power" is as close as I can get. No mentioning of grace here, hence no implication of sinlessness. (Douay got it wrong as well). Of course, the remarkable thing about Mary's fullness of grace is that it is declared to be already with her, and so presumably since birth, while St. Stephen, as well as other saints, reached sanctification through a feat of faith in their adult life. This immaculacy of conception separates Mary from other saints.

"kecheratomene" is used, I believe, in Tobias as well, and that is the only other occurence. There it is in context of the righteos dead eternally justified in the Lord, same, or very close, meaning as in the Annunciation of Mary.

[NormB]

Denial of Mary is denial of Christ.

How? Back that up? with scripture.

[annalex]

You denied Christ when you refused to have a crucifix in your house. (That post, #343, is now deleted).

[murphE]

Show me which Bible you get your translation from.

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1:28

Douay-Rheims Bible

Latin Vulgate Bible

[murphE]

I normally just pray to the Father and ask his Holy Spirit to guide me in my study....in Jesus' name. He lets me know when I'm wrong.

Gee, so many people say that they do that. I wonder why they all come up with different interpretations, and yet all believe they are correct.

[murphE]

I am getting married in 30 days and I probably need to slow down on postings and get ready for that (at least that's what my lady tells me!)...

Why, congratulations! And by all means listen to your future wife. =D

[Diego1618]

I normally just pray to the Father and ask his Holy Spirit to guide me in my study....in Jesus' name. He lets me know when I'm wrong. Gee, so many people say that they do that. I wonder why they all come up with different interpretations, and yet all believe they are correct.

Do you?

[marshmallow]

What about Judges 5:24 where Jael is called Most blessed of women?????

You raise a most interesting point. In the Catholic exegesis of the Bible, many of the women of the Old Testament pre-figure, or are "types" if you will, of Mary.

Elizabeth's greeting to Mary echoes the greeting of the angel. In addition, it also alludes to the Canticle of Deborah praising Jael for destroying the chief of Israel's enemies by a blow to his head (Jdgs. 5:24-31). The Canticle ends with the victorious statement: "May all Your enemies perish thus, O Lord! But Your friends be as the sun rising in its might!" (Jdgs. 5;31) Asaph also refers to the incident in Psalm 83.

The parallels between the Canticle of Deborah and Elizabeth's greeting are remarkable. As a result of Jael's action, the work of God appears even more gloriously since he did not rely on a warrior or an army. Instead, he eliminated Sisera through Jael, a woman.

[annalex]

getting married in 30 days

May the Good Lord abundantly bless your marriage. There is no better place to announce this happy event on a thread dedicated to Mary, the perfect woman, mother and wife. Thank you for your gracious style when discussing these difficult matters.

[annalex]

many of the women of the Old Testament pre-figure, or are "types" if you will, of Mary.

And Mary is a type of Christian Church -- which is really the reason she excites the Protestant anticlericalism so much. It is a difficult typology because it mixes the type a little bit. At he foot of the Cross, Mary becomes a spritiual bride of Christ as her mothership passes from Christ to John, and therefore to us, as we are parented by our Morther Church. The union of Christ and Mary in that scene is a wedding feast, and it produces a son, -- us.

Those who shall sneer, let them sneer.

[ScubieNuc]

(Douay got it wrong as well).

Whoa! Now isn't that strange? (sarcasm) In a previous post you implied Douay-Rheims got it right with Luke 1:28 and the KJV was "mickey mouse." Now when Douay-Rheims doesn't agree with what you want, you jump to a different version.

It appears as though your bible(s) aren't the source of your doctrine. If they were, then surely on a doctrine as "important" as this, they would agree. That means your doctrine is man-made.