Catholic Caucus: Mary, The Power of Her Name [The Most Holy Name of the Blessed Virgin Mary]

Holy Wounds Apostolate ^ | unknown | Holy Wounds Apostolate

[annalex]

highly favoured

Mickey Mouse translations like this one is one cause of the massive loss of Christian faith in the West in the past five centuries or so.

[annalex]

As Catholics we are under an obligation to offer spiritual advice when needed, to whomever needed, and that includes not just the posters that are nominally addressed, but also the readers of the thread. I realize that a comment about an insufficiently developed masculinity can be misunderstood as sarcasm, but you surely know that there is a very real link between defective mariology and the decline of Modern Man.

[annalex]

I would not allow a crucifix in my home.

Thanks. Perfect confession.

[ScubieNuc]

AH....This is near the heart of the matter. Catholics and Protostants are not usually talking from the same book. The King James Bible was written using over 3000 Greek manuscripts. The Catholic bible comes from three manuscripts.

People should be careful even when using the NIV. Alot is either missing or tucked into the margins. ex:



Why did Jesus come to earth?
KJV Luke 9:56
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

NIV Luke 9:56
and they went to another village.

KJV Matt. 18:11
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

NIV Matt. 18:11
(missing)

Is repentance important?
KJV Matt. 9:13
...I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
NIV Matt. 9:13
...I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
For whom did Jesus die?
KJV I Cor. 5:7
...Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
NIV I Cor. 5:7
...Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

In Whom must you believe to be saved?
KJV John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
NIV John 6:47
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Did Jesus give His disciples power to heal?
KJV Mark 3:15
...power to heal sickness, and to cast out devils.
NIV Mark 3:15
...authority to drive out demons.

The site that I use quite frequently is: www.blueletterbible.org
If you have a problem with the translation check their source.

[ScubieNuc]

Show me which Bible you get your translation from.

[marshmallow]

Interesting how Christ made it clear that God didn't play favorites. Mary being just another person who obeyed God.

Just another person who conceived miraculously and bore God himself in her womb?

That makes her unique doesn't it? Remember the words of her cousin Elizabeth as recorded in Luke's Gospel? "Blessed are you amongst women....." As Catholics, we take those words at face value and we repeat them in the prayer of the Hail Mary.

As for "favorites", Mary was chosen by God. We didn't choose her. God did. God, being God, has no need of human means yet He chose to use them for His plan of salvation. That involved asking for Mary's cooperation in this plan.

Thus God, in Jesus, came to us through Mary. We consider that to be significant.

As for the visions of Mary, they are definitely satanic. Anybody who doesn't see that is totally deceived.

Mary was, is, and always will be the Mother of Jesus. As mother of Jesus, she would also have a certain interest in those whom her Son redeemed at the cost of His blood, wouldn't you say?

[Pyro7480]

The Catholic bible comes from three manuscripts.

Where did you get that citation? The authoritative Catholic Bible, the Vulgate, was translated in the 4th Century by St. Jerome, who had manuscripts the translators of the KJV didn't have access to.

[ScubieNuc]

Also, how does John 1:14 read in your version?

[Pyro7480]

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

I hear those words every Sunday.

[annalex]

kecharitomene

wholly graced.

It is interesting that KJV routinely translates Charis, -- the stem of "kecharitomene" as Grace. It surely does so in Pauline Epistles that give us the theology of grace. But come to Mary, and voila, the same word becomes the tortured "most favoured".

The Greeks, with all their 3,000 manuscripts, never disputed the translation as "full of grace" and, of course, have regular mariology, even if slightly divergent from ours.

If you must read the Bible in English and on your own, -- something I would caution against, -- use Douay Rheims.

[Okies love Dubya 2]

AMDG Bump!

[annalex]

John 1:14 (Steph)

The same stem as in "kecharitomene", of course, -- "pleres charitos kai aletheias"

John 1 (Douay-Rheims):

14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

[phatus maximus]

I graciously accept your apologies...thank you for stating those, many would not, yet you did, that says much to the depth of your character.


I read the quotation that contained this:

His blessed mother crushed him likewise, by cooperation to the mystery of the Incarnation; and by rejecting, with horror, the very first suggestions of the enemy, to commit even the smallest sin.

I guess I don't comprehend the defeat of Satan as Christ along with Mary, through Christ's actions, doing the crushing. You make good points that God could have justified us in any manner he saw fit, but he chose to do it through his people to fulfill his promise. He promised that the seed of a woman would do this long ago and he followed up on his promise. That seed, Christ took on his human form through Mary, but how Mary therefore works through Christ and the contention that Mary is like Christ in being sinless is where we differ and likely will continue to differ.

I appreciate your comments and thoughts on this topic. At this point I respectfully will cease my end of the discussion...I am getting married in 30 days and I probably need to slow down on postings and get ready for that (at least that's what my lady tells me!)...

May the Lord bless you and keep you...may the make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you...may the Lord show you his favor and give you peace....

[NormB]

Thanks. Perfect confession.

Confession of what? Come on Annalex, you can do better than that. Your last few posts are really not up to par. The bible condemns the CREATION of graven images. The rcc promotes WORSHIP of same. That leaves YOU arguing with the bible, not me. This is precisly why Catholics are in danger of hellfire. They reject the simple sacrifice of Christ and substitute vain traditions of men. They attach all sorts of rites and sacrifice to the work of Christ and thus nullify its power in their life. I rest on the finished work of Christ.

[Pyro7480]

The rcc promotes WORSHIP of same.

Statues and icons are NOT gods. The ancients heathens thought the works of their hands WERE their gods.

[NormB]

Statues and icons are NOT gods. The ancients heathens thought the works of their hands WERE their gods.

...as opposed to modern day heathens who just worship the dead. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Pyro7480]

The "dead" you refer to are more alive than we are, as someone on thread stated earlier. They are with the Lord.

[annalex]

First, you don't understand the Bible, which you read without the bebefit of the patristic guidance. The heresy of iconoclasm, that developed under the Muslim influences in the East, which your post betrays, was condemned in or around 9 century. Theolgically, this error was put to rest by St. John Damascene in the 8 century. Since we are not arguing about that, but rather about Mary, I'll be brief.

The Old Testament contains a condemnation of worship of graven images, as we are to have one God only. It is your interpretation that not only worship but also the making of images was ever condemned even among the Jews. The Church agrees that worship of any image is a sin.

Christ gave us an image of God in His own person. Since the Incarnation, our understanding of all the Old Testament commandments changed. Images of Christ and the saints allow us to properly worship God. You should do the same.

For more information, read On Holy Images

St. John Damascene