Posted on 09/12/2005 9:23:36 AM PDT by Salvation
Can we both agree that God wrote the Gospel of Luke through a man named Luke?
One of my favorite lines from St. Paul is at the end of one of his letters (Galatians?) where he says, "See with what LARGE LETTERS I am writing to you with my own hand? This is what my writing always looks like. This is the way I write!" I'm sure if he had a (/sarcasm) tag, he'd have used it :-).
LOL! You're right! It still shocks me how "earthy" and human some of the epistles are for Holy Writ. The equivalent of "Oh, and say hello to Joe for me." :)
Absolutely.
Ok great. God writes the Gospel of Luke through Luke. Luke--I think you'll probably also agree--even though he wasn't an Apostle, was a member of the Church. Probably, you might even say, a definitely "saved" member of the Church. As were Paul, Matthew, Mark, John, James, Peter, etc.
That's why we say the whole New Testament came to us through the church. Now if there's a hole in that reasoning somewhere, I wouldn't mind hearing it.
It says flatly that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth, though.
And what do you think Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul were if not members of the Church?
That's like saying Mary created God.
Funny you should say that, because Mary is human and God is divine. But the Church is not merely human, and the Bible is not itself divine. Christ founded the Church; the Church (in the person of the Apostles and evangelists) wrote the Bible under inspiration. The Bible says so.
The original statement was about the Bible and it's Author, you changed the context of the original argment.
BTW, Rome/RCC is not the Body of Christ/Church. If it was, the bible would say so.
Sorry for being unclear. I meant in the beginning its human/proximate author, not its divine author. Clearly the church has no power save what God gives it.
My kids and I sometimes do paraphrases when we're reading the Bible ... "And Jesus said to the disciples, 'O ne Zot! You guys are so dumb, I think you'd forget to breathe if it wasn't automatic!' "
I think it's important to remember that, not only was everyone in the New Testatment a human being (including Jesus), but they came from a culture with a very earthy and direct mode of expression. I prefer the RSV to a "modern language" translation, but at the same time, I recognize that the Lord and the Apostles were not using an antiquated and elevated form of language at the time. They were talking to simple people, who obviously comprehended what they were told, even if they didn't "get it" much of the time.
Ok, let's suppose that God told Luke what to write down to each individual word what to write.
How do we know that Luke wrote what God told him? Maybe he changed a word here, or fixed a word there?
Yes it sure would, wouldn't it? :)
How do we know that Luke wrote what God told him? Maybe he changed a word here, or fixed a word there?
It's almost like you are being series, but not quite.
If any Catholic claimed Mary was God, they would cease to be Catholic.
The Mormons claim that their books are authenticated by a "burning feeling in the heart" when they read it.
The mohammedans claim that mohammed took dictation from "allah", called it the Q'uran, and gave it to them, thus authenticating it.
Upon what authority do you accept the Bible as Scripture, and why is that authority any better than the Mormons' or mohammedans' authority?
I always wondered why Catholics don't treat Mary's mother the same as they treat Mary.
After all, if she was born without sin, immaculate, then her Mother, I'm sure, was also born without sin, to carry Marry.
And if Mary is the Mother of God, then her Mother is the Mother of the Mother of God, and is also worthy of being prayed to, and looked to as the intercessor between Mary and the sinner...
After all, if sinners need an intercessor between Jesus and them, why don't sinners also need an intercessor between Mary and them?
Ed
God wrote the Bible through the Church, and then led the Church, through the Spirit, to select the canon from among the various Christian writings that were circulating in the first 4 centuries of the Christian era.
I am amazed that you would even attempt to dispute that obvious fact.
BTW, Rome/RCC is not the Body of Christ/Church. If it was, the bible would say so.
Irrelevant to my point. But how do you know that the Bible would say so? Where in the Bible does it say that it would?
No such claim is made. Catholics don't believe that Mary "had to be sinless" so Jesus would be sinless, or any such strange ideas. It's simply a privilege given to Mary by her creator, who also happened to be her son.
And if Mary is the Mother of God, then her Mother is the Mother of the Mother of God, and is also worthy of being prayed to
Nothing wrong with asking for St. Anne's prayers. And one of the Eastern Orthodox liturgies actually refers to St. Anne and St. Joachim as "the holy and righteous ancestors of God".
Matthew 6:6-7,"When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
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