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To: annalex
This would mean one was 100% saved by your works
No, that would not mean that. I need to steer my car in order to get where I am going and preserve the car, but my driving did not make the car, Toyota did.

Rather like the Deist clock analogy ? God winds it up and just lets it run?

Your analogy is this

I am fully in charge of the car. What happens to the car is all my responsibility.

THAT is salvation by MY steering ( works) , 100%

James 2 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou that faith did cooperate with his works and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers and sending them out another way? 26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead: so also faith without works is dead.

THAT is NOT a salvation scripture.

The Epistles were written to the SAVED. This was a letter on how to LIVE your life in a way that men could see it (let your light SO SHINE BEFORE MEN)

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord] of glory, with respect of persons.

Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

What was James teaching the church?

Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

show me thy faith without thy works--if thou canst; but thou canst not SHOW, that is, manifest or evidence thy alleged ( Jam 2:14 , "say") faith without works. "Show" does not mean here to prove to me, but exhibit to me. Faith is unseen save by God. To show faith to man, works in some form or other are needed: we are justified judicially by God ( Rom 8:33 ); meritoriously, by Christ ( Isa 53:11 ); mediately, by faith ( Rom 5:1 ); evidentially, by works. The question here is not as to the ground on which believers are justified, but about the demonstration of their faith:
A. R. FAUSSETT

Would you please define the word Mercy for me ?

Also I still await a scripture that TEACHES Salvation is WORK and FAITH .

Surely Jesus would have taught that , surely it would have been preached in Acts. The Holy Spirit reveals truth H does not hide it

95 posted on 09/03/2005 7:10:13 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: RnMomof7; PetroniusMaximus
THAT is salvation by MY steering ( works) , 100%

Don't tell me what I mean by the analogy I make. God gives me faith like Toyota gives me a car. If I don't do works, my faith remains unformed by charity, just like if I don't put gas in the car and don't steer it, I don't arrive at the destination and wreck the car.

Regarding your spin on James, it is laughable. It is a good illustration why the Scripture should not be read outside of the councel of the Church, as most fantastic interpretations of a plain text crop up.

await a scripture that TEACHES Salvation is WORK and FAITH .

I gave you scripture, you ignored it or spun away from it. See again, #15. However, these are words of Christ (Matthew 19):

16 And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?
17 Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness.
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
20 The young man saith to him: All these have I kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me?
21 Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Now, if a mere proclamation of faith were sufficient for salvation, you would think Christ would have said so. Instead, He laid out quite a program of charitable works, culminating in a life of poverty and discipleship. Christ directly instructed us that faith must be formed by works.
139 posted on 09/06/2005 12:53:50 PM PDT by annalex
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