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To: InterestedQuestioner
However, if you look at those verses, you will notice that none of them say that we are saved by faith alone. You've listed the verses that you think say we are saved by faith alone, and they're right there in front of you. Look and see, none of them say we are saved by faith alone. As it turns out, nowhere in Bible does it say that we are saved by Faith alone.

I've always felt that this passage was good for showing the relationships between grace, faith, works, and salvation.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So then ... we are saved wholly by God's grace ... through our own faith (which, like everything else we have ... is a gift from God).

In no part (are we saved) by our own works ... which prevents anyone (other than God) from boasting.

Therefore ... as saved individuals, ... we are the products of God's work ... created in Christ Jesus ... for the purpose of performing the works which God has already decided that we should do.


Paul must have got this question a lot.

54 posted on 09/02/2005 11:16:11 AM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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To: Quester; InterestedQuestioner
Paul must have got this question a lot.

LOL. Amen.

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,

since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith." -- Romans 3:28-30

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" -- Romans 5:1

His blood shed once for all His sheep, ordained by God for His glory from before the foundation of the world.

57 posted on 09/02/2005 12:05:26 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Quester
That's are good quotes, and a good explanation of your views. Paul is speaking about the Works of the Jewish Law, however, and that's important to keep in mind. I think we're having some miscommunication, so let's see if we can work around that. To begin with, correctly speaking, we are not saved by our Faith, right? We are saved by God, correct?

Where we agree with regards to salvation is that we are saved, not that we save ourselves. That is, God saves us, we don't have the power to do it ourselves. Both this life and the next are gifts from God, freely and graciously given. (I think the passive voice in "are saved" seems to be misread in many cases as a past tense, but the appropriate reading seems to be that we are the objects of God's saving Grace.)

Where we have room for discussion is in the role of the believer in the economy of Salvation. We believe that Christ died for our salvation, and yet, none of us understand this to mean that human beings will all automatically go to Heaven, regardless of their beliefs and actions. Rather, we believe that the individual too has a responsibility in the economy of Salvation, that is, we must accept Christ's gift, we must respond to God's call, we must Choose Life. How do we do this?

The Protestant Formulation is that our response is Faith alone. There is much that suggests this is a formulation with serious drawbacks. To begin, it's not Scriptural, and in fact, it flies in the face of Scripture. Secondly, we must read it apart from the witness of Scripture which tells us that we will not be saved without mercy, without love, without forgiveness of others, and to be blunt, without works. How do you resolve this conflict? That is one of the questions that is being asked here. The author of the article asserts that "good" Protestants do so by defining faith in such a way as to include hope and love. He suggests that many Protestants, however, make an honest mistake of not defining Faith in this way, but rather see it as an intellectual assent only, and he argues that such an understanding is dangerous.

It seems like it would be a better formulation to say that we are saved by grace through faith and love, or through a faith that works in love. The appropriate response on the part of the creature to the Love and Mercy of God is not a mere belief in God, but rather Love of God, gratitude for his works, and Love of our fellow human beings, who are created in the image and likeness of God, and whom are also the objects of God's Love. Perhaps you understand these terms to be implied in the formula, "salvation by faith alone"?

From a Catholic understanding, God does not compel those who do not love Him to spend eternity in his presence. We've seen Matthew 25: 31-46, the judegement scene described by Christ as a separation of the Sheep and the Goats. Notice that God's command to those who did not show mercy to the suffering is: "Depart from Me." I understand this to mean that hell is a separation from God, and it is the choice made by those who do not love God, in this case through Love of fellow human beings. Notice that elsewhere in Scripture, Heaven is described as a place prepared for those who love the Lord, and Scripture repeatedly tells us that God is gracious to those who love Him and keep his commandments. Simple belief is not enough, rather we must Love God and our fellow man. Notice in the Judgement scene described in Matthew, that everyone calls God, "Lord," and yet it is on the basis of whether they have shown compassion to the suffering or not that they are either go to God or are dismissed from Him.

Do you understand compassion, mercy, and forgiveness to be implied in the term, "fatih alone"? If so, then we probably have little disagreement, although I might point out that such an understanding doesn't follow from the statement, "saved by faith alone", and there appear to be many who understand these things to not be part of that formulation.

"Blessed is a man who endures trials, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that He has promised to those who love Him.--James 1:12
58 posted on 09/02/2005 12:26:00 PM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
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