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To: PetroniusMaximus

PM,

Your last post juxtaposed two Scriptures, but did not answer the question at hand. The believer is capable of committing sins, but you have asserted that he is not capable of going to hell.

To follow this logic, if then one who has been born again commits murder, he will nonetheless go to heaven. How do you see this?


239 posted on 09/20/2005 11:55:04 AM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
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To: InterestedQuestioner
***To follow this logic, if then one who has been born again commits murder, he will nonetheless go to heaven. How do you see this?***

Well, the verse in 1 John seems to be pretty clear that no one who murders "has eternal life abiding in him" (which is a unique phrase) - possibly indicating that people who commit murder show that they have never been born again.

Add to this Paul's statement:

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, *murders*, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Interestingly, Paul says "those who practice such things" - i.e. those whose lives are characterized by such things.

Is is not safe to synthesize the above to passages into a statement that those who "practice such things" do not have "eternal life abiding in" them?




As I was thinking of your question I was reminded of David, the man after God's own heart. He committed cold blooded, premeditated murder - yet he was forgiven. He, as an OT saint, under the law, was forgiven.

And we are told in Hebrews that there are things which can be forgiven under the new covenant which could not be forgiven under the old. Additionally, Jesus himself said:

Matthew 12:31
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."


So based on the above, I would say that if a true Christian could commit murder, then yes, they could be forgiven for it. If the Christian murdered then he would repent. The Holy Spirit would see to that. (It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of ALL our sins and makes us miserable until we confess them to the Lord and seek His forgiveness.)

A person who professes to be a Christian and murders - and refuses to repent and seek forgiveness or one who repeatedly commits murder is not a true Christian.



As a side note let me relate a true story to you. A good Christian woman with a baby was arrested in her home in China. Because she would not renounce Christ, the communist soldiers took her baby from her and threw it on the floor. The raised their boots and stomped the baby to death - crushing its head. The did this right in front of the poor mother.

In her grief she lost all reason and grabbed a knife off the counter and slashed one soldiers throat - killing him. The other soldier immediately shot and killed her.

Do you think she went to hell?
240 posted on 09/20/2005 2:24:56 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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