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To: InterestedQuestioner
There really is no need for all this speculation.

Paul is quite clear in Ephesians 2 that salvation is of grace ... by faith ... and produces works.

There is no one who is saved by the commision of any work ... for such would be counter to the declaration of Paul in Ephesians 2.

Jesus has called us all to be perfect, ... even as our heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).

Paul says that we all miss that mark.

If you're counting on making the mark to get into heaven, ... I'm afraid that you're not going to make it.

The only perfect righteousness that will get us into heaven is the righteousness of Christ, which God has, graciously made available to us.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
In this discussion of the Law by Paul, he gives the purpose of the Law ... that all the world may be guilty before God.

Thus, ... this Law is not, simply, the Law of the Jews, ... it is the Law by which God judges the entire world ... Jews & Gentiles.

It is, indeed, the Law which is based upon God's commandments to love Him ... and to love one another, ... for upon these two, says our Lord, ... does all the Law and the Prophets hang (Matthew 22:37-40).
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Once again, ... by this Law (which judges the whole world) ... there shall no flesh be saved.

The Law is our teacher ... and bring us to the knowledge of our need for God's grace.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

201 posted on 09/12/2005 8:41:57 PM PDT by Quester (If you can't trust Jesus, ... who can you trust ?)
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To: Quester
Quester,

I think you're avoiding the Scripture at hand. The Gospel according to Matthew and Paul's Epistle to the Romans are totally consistent, but the question of how we go to Heaven is put directly to Jesus in Matthew chapter 19, and Jesus gives a direct answer. In the Letter to the Romans, and much of the rest of his writings, Paul also deals with the question of how we are saved, but he is responding to those who insist that one must keep the Jewish Law in order to be saved. (Circumcision, dietary restrictions, etc.)

I feel like each time we move to a new Scripture passage, I'm potentially left with a significant work of exegesis. (see posts 166 and 199). Paul's arguments are extremely well laid out and I'm happy to move onto Romans and Ephesians, but would prefer to deal with the passages from Matthew before jumping around.

"Jesus has called us all to be perfect, ... even as our heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48). ....Paul says that we all miss that mark."

You're using Scripture to refute Scripture, and that will not do. There is but One Spirit who Inspired the Scriptures, and they do not contradict. Christian Perfection does not exist in scrupulosity, as Martin Luther seemed to have believed, but rather in the willingness to Sacrifice all else in order to follow Christ. Let's go back to Matthew 19:16-30.

When asked what one must do to see eternal life, Jesus tells a young man that he must keep the Commandments. Would you agree to me that those who break the Commandments have no assurance of Salvation, regardless of what they believe?

Would you agree with me that the terms which Jesus sets for attaining perfection, in this case, keeping the Commandments, selling all of ones possessions, giving the money to the poor, and following Jesus, are in fact reasonable and possible?

Finally, to clear some of the clutter from the conversation, would you join me in condemning Salvation by belief alone as being totally unscriptural and a dangerous teaching?
202 posted on 09/12/2005 9:21:37 PM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
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