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To: marshmallow
This is what SSPX means by "lifting" the excommunications? An admission from the Vatican that they were never valid?

Exactly.

In other words, the Pope goofed?

OK, make sure that you're sitting down,I know this may shake your whole moral foundation, but yes it happens. Popes can goof. Popes can also make canonical decisions based on politics or other motives instead of truth and justice. Unfortunately it has happened before. Did you know that one pope excommunicated a whole city, the city of Florence? Although the Church restricted them from the sacraments (and in that way they suffered "excommunication") do you think that each and every citizen was guilty in reality and in the eyes of God, so that they also suffered "excommunication" in the spiritual sense?

The penitent confesses his sin, expresses sorrow and is absolved.

Now there is no way for the Archbishop Lefebvre to do this, and the nullification his "excommunication" is included in the request And why would someone express sorrow and ask forgiveness for a crime they are not guilty of? Wouldn't that be like lying?

Think of an innocent man wrongly convicted, even by the highest court. He suffers legally by going to jail, his reputation is irreparably damaged, and the public accepts him as "guilty". However, in reality and in the eyes of God he is never guilty, he remains innocent.

You guys want it the other way around?

I am not the SSPX, nor one of the bishops of the SSPX. Pope Benedict XVI can formally acknowledge it or not, the reality of the invalidity of the "excommunications" will not change.

This is the real question though, if this pope or a future pope does acknowledge that the "excommunications" were invalid are you going to accept it? Are you going to feel sorry for how you spoke about the SSPX bishops?

103 posted on 08/31/2005 1:17:48 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
I am not the SSPX, nor one of the bishops of the SSPX. Pope Benedict XVI can formally acknowledge it or not, the reality of the invalidity of the "excommunications" will not change.

The "reality?"

You're saying that it doesn't matter what Benedict XVI or the Church says on this matter? They're invalid, period?

Is this some sort of official proclamation?

This is the real question though, if this pope or a future pope does acknowledge that the "excommunications" were invalid are you going to accept it? Are you going to feel sorry for how you spoke about the SSPX bishops?

If this Pope or a future Pope decides such, I'll have absolutely no problem with that decision. If a Pope is humble enough to admit error, I'd certainly be prepared to do so.

I think this comment says more about you than it does about me. Admissions of error are only a problem for the proud.

Is this what happened at Campos?

Were the excommunications proclaimed invalid?

Or were the excommunicandi received back as returning penitents?

104 posted on 08/31/2005 2:11:53 PM PDT by marshmallow
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