Posted on 08/14/2005 9:31:12 AM PDT by BulldogCatholic
Sorry Dominick about the cut and paste but you essentially were accusing me of being something that is nothing to be ashamed of on both threads and I am not the best typist in the world as my misspellings on the borard point this out.
Dont forget Our Lord and Apostles were put down and crucified, as well as all early christian martyrs and saints, for not being "popular" and ridiculed for being "blashpemers" by the Pharisies and then the Romans (do you think JPII would have really been the rock star pope if he actually was DEFENDING Catholicism.
So if that means that being a Traditionalist and standing up for what is right, then so be it. Remember, if we are wrong now then YOU were wrong THEN
----I'm only 39, so maybe I'm just being a romantic, but it seems to me that it's a new thing for the workplace to be the center of life. Didn't people once have their lives - religious celebrations, entertaining, political activism - in the home, church, and community, and go to their workplace to earn a living?---
Mrs. Tax,
I'll give you $1,000 if you can show me one tombstone anywhere that is inscribed with "I wish I had spent more time at the office" or "Loving Father, Husband, Grandfather and Total Workaholic."
There is your job and there is your life; wise people like you never confuse the two.
Francis A.
I went to Mass today, Bishop or no Bishop.
F
You no doubt brought a smile to our Blessed Mother's face! God bless you for that!
Divine Liturgy was at 7pm. There were 12 of us in attendance. No matter, Francis' two children served as acolytes (in full cassock and surplice) and our organist was there as well. Father picked up one of the seasoned parishioners who can no longer drive and brought her to church.
Two of the parishioners who showed up were confused because they have a religious calendar on their wall that does not indicate today as a Holy Day of Obligation. Both are older and recalled that it used to be when they were younger, so they "took the chance". Father welcomed them graciously, so pleased that they had come. He spoke with his mother earlier today and she described the churches in Lebanon as packed to overflowing. It's a MAJOR Holy Day in the East.
In his homily, Father noted that these feast days were intentionally placed in the liturgical calendar to coincide with specific aspects of harvest. August 15, throughout most of the northern hemisphere, is the beginning of grape harvest. In the East, they connect Mary to the grape harvest with the title 'Mother of the Harvest' (or something like that), always drawing us back to her role in the Divine plan of Redemption.
He also spoke of the great honor given her by God to bear Him in human form. And the respect due her for accepting. (Father's choice of words was much better than mine). One thing he said that grabbed my heart was that Jesus would not allow His mother's death to be like that of other mortals. Out of great love and respect, He came to bring her home to her place at his side in Heaven. She is the only woman ever assumed to heaven and because of that special bond of love between her and her Son, she is much more than a saint. She is our intercessor and we should bring our problems to her to lay before her Son.
What a beautiful Mass! What a wonderful priest! How I wish I could fill these pews for him with catholics who want to hear the homilies he delivers. I'll have to bring this to Mary :-) and ask her to intercede. If our Lord could lead me here, surely He can and will lead others.
Happy Feast of the Assumption to you all!
I went to Mass, too. James hit me in the eye with a Matchbox car - "Peace be with you, sir; am I bleeding near my right eye?" He found a calculator in my purse and decided it was a cell phone, so behind the readings and the homily you could hear, "Hi! Okay ... whatever. Bye!" Pat hollered, "Father, Josie's going to give me a toaster!" Father Hawker looked stuned. Bill, who was serving, tried to pretend he didn't know us. Tom had hysterics, hyperventilated, and turned aubergine. Father sat down and cracked up. Fortunately, the service was almost over by then!
I'm sure the Blessed Virgin - I imagine her as something like FReeper Alouette - has seen it all before ...
Well, that's what I thought. I'm puzzled every year, at Christmas and Easter, especially, when there's so much in the news about whether or not businesses are going to have Christmas parties, or whether customers will be wished "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or just "Be careful out there!" And all that stuff. I thought religious celebrations belonged in the home and in the church, not in offices and government agencies.
--stuned--
Oh no! Pat stuned him with your beeber?! The rascal. Bet Josie put him up to it!
F
--I thought religious celebrations belonged in the home and in the church, not in offices and government agencies.--
I love the shocked expressions on the faces of salepeople when I wish them a "Merry Christmas!" with a look of total good cheer. Some actually look back as if I had cursed at them out loud! Others smile as their PC defense-survival mask melts away.
F
Catholics aren't allowed to fast three hours before Mass? Really?
By the way, are you aware that the reduction of the fast to three hours was an innovation of Pope Pius XII? It was. Before then, Catholics were all obligated to fast from midnight. Perhaps you should modify your polemics some, because presenting the three hour fast as a "tradition" is laughable.
Kneel to receive the sacred species
I receive Holy Communion kneeling. This practice is certainly allowed by the Pope: "Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing." (Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum, §91).
Just curious but where is "here"? (I'm doing a survey :-)
What! No sports figures!!
Yup! Ditto here in Albany. Fortunately for the group of 'confirmandi' that I taught, I would accept nothing less than a saint's name. Recognizing that they wanted to pick something unusual or different, I gave them a web site link to every saint that had ever been canonized, even enticing them with saintly tidbits like "there is one saint who was tossed into an oven and emerged unscathed". Today's teens thrive on the bizarre and they bit. Several chose arcane saints from the 1st and 2nd centuries. That was a real "win/win" situation since these forgotten saints had gained sudden fame :-). Ironically the pastor's nephew was in another group and the kid refused to pick a saint's name; he chose his mother's maiden name. Well, as fate would have it, in looking up that name, I actually found a saint and immediately called the pastor with the good news. He was delighted but we agreed not to mention a word to the nephew for fear he might change it again. God acts in strange ways.
Remember livius, the 'onus' is on the teacher and the child's parents to set the guidelines, not the bishop. There are too few parishioners willing to commit to teaching CCD. In a liberal diocese like Albany, the need for more 'devout' parishioners to get involved is tantamount. Otherwise, you end up pointing fingers of blame at others.
Always begin with yourself. Not happy with the way things are going? Jump in and change them. It's not easy but "we" are the church and only "we" can change it. Remember, if I had not agreed to teach that Confirmation class, the parish would now have liturgical dancers - the 'confirmandi'! The one year I was asked to teach, is the same year that the pastor sent his DRE into the Confirmation classrooms looking for volunteers to perform liturgical dance. The priest thought he could pull the wool over the eyes of these volunteers; he never factored me into the mix and could not anticipate that I would take this to the level of the diocese. No liturgical dance!
Boy, that's the truth! When I taught 9th grade RE (not Confirmation ... that was 11th grade in Oklahoma), I told the students about the early Ecumenical Councils, the fights betweeen Gnostics, Arians, Montanists, etc. The point was that the elements of the Creed are so important that people were dying over them (and I think they got it) but they really got into the idea of mobs in the streets howling, "Dig up his bones!"
My daughter has Confirmation this year, and plans to take the name "Peter." (I wonder if anyone will try to talk her out of it?) Her baptismal names are Josephine Victoria Clare; I suppose that was enough feminine frou-frou for life!
You seem to be confusing the Ascension with the Assumption.
Not a difficult slip to make, by the way.
The Ascension was Jesus in the presence of the Apostles, rising into the air and being obscured by moving clouds, in silence. It's in the Bible.
The Assumption refers to the Blessed Virgin Mary, after having been buried (probably in a sarcophagus), was found by the apostles to have been taken up, body and soul, in silence, into heaven. The exact specifics of this event are not spelled out in Scripture, however, and therefore merely reading the Bible will not answer your questions. Also, people who read the Bible, even regularly, might be subject to making this mistake of confusing the Ascension with the Assumption.
As a traditional Lutheran you might appreciate the plight of traditional Catholics these days. Traditionally, Ascension Thursday (sometimes called "Ascension Day") is always on the Thursday following the 5th Sunday after Easter (or "Resurrection Sunday"). In the count, the first Sunday in included because Jesus rose in the early morning. 5x7+1=36, the number of days at the 5th Sunday. Plus four more takes you to Thursday at 40 days after Easter.
Traditionally, Jesus ascended into heaven on a Thursday, just as He rose from the dead on a Sunday.
But this is talking about Ascension Thursday, while this thread is talking about the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, traditionally commemorated on August 15th, whichever day in the week that falls on, even Sunday. This year it falls on Monday, but a few years ago the American bishops decided to make Monday and Saturday observance optional in some such cases. Traditional Catholics don't look for ways of escaping the traditional norms, so we show up for Mass on Monday like Catholics would have done before the recent convenience-related revisions.
If Monday and Saturday are too inconvenient, why stop there? Tuesday and Friday might be too inconvenient next year, and after that, Wednesday and Thursday might suddenly rise to the modern norm of inconvenience. After that, well, what's so special about Sunday? The logical end excludes all seven days of the week as too inconvenient for attendance at Mass.
Something you said could be misunderstood:
~~Baptism no longer has anything to do with original sin but is a "welcoming of one" into the christian community.~~
Baptism, per se, does not change. Anyone who pours the water, says the words (the proper words, not some others) and has the intention to do what the Church teaches, still administers Baptism to the recipient who willingly submits himself to the sacrament.
It seems to me that what you were trying to say is that in too many so-called Catholic parishes and venues, they are now ignoring this sacramental theology, and are teaching heretical doctrine. This is true. But merely because they claim to be "Catholic" does not make them so. These are trying times when much discernment is necessary for someone to know what is true and what is false.
The important thing is for anyone who desires to be saved should open his heart and pray to God to show him the way, to make known to him what he needs to save his soul from hell, and to not give up, even until his final moment of life, when all the powers of hell conspire to deceive every human creature. Anyone who asks God for this grace shall not be denied this grace, of this we can be sure.
Check your GIRM-you are in VIOLATION, not allowed to kneel, if your Bishop wanted he could deny you communion!
Try asking countless of parishoners here-JPII only put out Redemtionis because of just that fact.
Do you for one minute actually think the Bishops actually give a hoot what Rome says? Like I think you said, the V2 documents have many requirements that to this day are not being followed.
And when you are on that long line with all of those kiddies in their shorts and flip flops, woman with halter tops and men in T-shirts waiting for the "Body of Christ", you are going to stop and hold up the line and kneel? You are not being Modern! Hey, no one genuflects no more either, tabernacle? so what. The Novus Ordo have that nice little table in the middle and no one dares genuflect anymore, or a few die hards. Our Bishop does a little "nod" to the laity when he passes by the tabernacle, he is worshipping the LAITY! Not Christ!
The New Mass is self indulgent worship of oneself, and casts doubt on the real presence and has resulted in a loss of the faith for millions never to be regained. It is actually worse than the reformation as this time the split from past church teachings came from within and not from without, like the Aryan Heresy of old
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