Posted on 08/10/2005 7:54:28 AM PDT by TBP
Genuine Christianity is about self-denial, not self-empowerment.
Religion is supposed to be about uplifting us. How does self-denial promote that?
And to that I would add, it is about being filled with the Holy Spirit. A self-empowered human is a speck of dust compared to the most ordinary person who is filled with the H.S.
Talk about real power!
I will never understand the charismatic movement. It's really quite a cultural phenomenon.
In Christianity, you win by losing and you live by dying. Click on my name and read a quote by John MacArthur. He says it better than I ever could.
A saint of many centuries ago got it right with this prayer:
Lord, high and holy, meek and lowly, let me learn by paradox that the way down is the way up, that to be low is to be high, that the broken heart is the healed heart, that the contrite spirit is the rejoicing spirit, that the repenting soul is the victorious soul, that to have nothing is to posses everyting, that to bear the cross is to wear the crown, that to give is to receive. Let me find thy light in my darkness, thy joy in my sorrow, thy grace in my sin, thy riches in my poverty, thy glory in my valley, thy life in my death.
The charismatic movement is an attempt to get back to the fulness of the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. Some of it is a little off the track, but the intention is good. As far as Joel Osteen, I think he's blessed because he's one of very few that preaches that God is for you and not against you. If you want proof of that, just check out what people on this website post far more often than not. I thank God that I came to know Him as accepting me. Had I learned from most of those on this website, I'd think God was an unreasonable, unpleasable, hating ogre. But He's not that. He's perfect love.
Christianity is definitely not about self-empowerment. It's about total reliance upon God and seeking to serve and advance His Kingdom in this world until Christ returns to fully consumate it. Osteen's message seems very anthropocentric.
I was recently taken to task by some posters here who were evidently embarrassed by Osteen representing Arminians. Your article is interesting and I think that Osteen represents a very large segment of current non-Denomination Arminian thought.
Colin.
Matthew 16: 24 & 25: If anyone desires to follow after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
It's all a part of the great mystery. We just have to believe and follow Him. I have visited Lakewood Church and have found all the TV related things going on to be very distracting to worship. The message bothers me inasmuch as the Lord is not some cosmic grandpa who is there to grant my every wish. I am here to worship him and to dedicate my life to Him and that involves sacrifice on my part.
Which is, at bottom, nonsense.
"I come that you may have life and have it more abundantly."
That's what they think. Self-deluded people....
That is the truth. The presence of Almighty God in someone is an awesome thing to behold.
You are both right!
One must die to himself and be reborn of the Holy Spirit, a new creature in God. Then and only then will life be infinitely abundant...and, I might add, eternal.
Not really. Having life abundantly does not imply abundant
material gains. Life especially eternal life involves giving up more than enjoying "life".
Uh huh. Okay. And, um, just so I know, what is it exactly that the Lord is doing through your life, that is coming from your absolutely fantastic "self sacrifice"? I'd really like to know. Because, for knowing that God my Father is FOR ME and not AGAINST ME, I have had countless things done through my life, FREELY, by His grace, not because I'm so adept at "self sacrifice".
So really, fill me in, let me know about the far-reaching ABUNDANT FRUIT that Christ GUARANTEED to come through our lives, that you find in your life, solely because of your fantastic self-sacrifice....
I have no doubts the intentions are good, I'm just not set on the same frequency as they are I guess.
That's funny, because I got filled with the Holy Spirit before I did ANYTHING. ANYTHING. I think that's because, the Bible calls the Holy Spirit a GIFT. That means, you can't earn it with your works or "denying of self". He is granted freely to all believers.
Not entirely, but that is part of it. "It is the Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom."
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