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To: Dr. Eckleburg
But the truth remains that if God loved all men with the saving grace with which He sacrificed His Son on the cross, all men surely would be saved.

Why?

As a picture: If God were on the bank of a river and all mankind were floating by to the waterfalls of destruction, surely, if He loved all (I believe He does), he would save all. Why then aren't all saved?

If God, out of love, chose to throw a rope to every person that floated by, it would demostrate His love for all mankind - He loves all mankind. All one has to do to be saved, is choose to grab the rope. Many do not choose to grab the rope because they don't believe that they are headed to destruction, or they believe that the rope-thrower is unwilling, or unable to actually save them, or finally, because they are enjoying the ride too much to get out.

And still, many grab the rope, but for numerous reasons, cast it aside before they've reached the bank.

If God stands outside of time and knows all information, then he would foreknow those that would repent and believe on Christ (grab the rope). Those then, are the elect. The gospel is made available to them based oh His foreknowledge that they would repent and believe.

Doesn't this explain election and freewill.

399 posted on 08/03/2005 8:19:19 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (Montani semper liberi !)
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To: Bear_Slayer; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins
If God, out of love, chose to throw a rope to every person that floated by, it would demostrate His love for all mankind - He loves all mankind. All one has to do to be saved, is choose to grab the rope.

The Calvinist will obviously insist that reprobates have no arms.

400 posted on 08/03/2005 8:25:16 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Bear_Slayer
Very nice illustration.
401 posted on 08/03/2005 8:26:05 AM PDT by Buggman (Baruch ata Adonai Elohanu, Mehlech ha Olam, asher nathan lanu et derech ha y’shua b’Mashiach Yeshua.)
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To: Bear_Slayer

Why is there even a waterfall of destruction?


403 posted on 08/03/2005 8:28:45 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Bear_Slayer; Frumanchu; HarleyD; nobdysfool; RnMomof7; suzyjaruki; rwfromkansas; xzins; Gamecock; ..
If God, out of love, chose to throw a rope to every person that floated by...

If God wanted all men to grab the rope and be saved, all men would grab the rope and be saved.

God gets what He wants.

Or else He's not God, He's a politician who gets some people's vote and loses others.

The modern world has become so saturated in "I am the Captain of My Ship" mentality that it thinks it has the power to determine God's will for His creation.

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." -- Romans 11:5-6

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." -- Romans 12:3

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." -- 1 Corinthians 15:10

It's been made obvious during these past several years that God illuminates His will for some, and for others He permits them to think they hold the lamp themselves.

And it's all as God wills.

410 posted on 08/03/2005 9:07:34 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Bear_Slayer; Dr. Eckleburg
If God stands outside of time and knows all information, then he would foreknow those that would repent and believe on Christ (grab the rope). Those then, are the elect. The gospel is made available to them based oh His foreknowledge that they would repent and believe.

So then we have a salvation of works and not grace?

God rewards men for choosing correctly?

What do we make of this .

Jhn 15:16 — Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, ....and this

1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You propose a form of Salvation that Man chooses God and then God chooses the man .

You have presented a doctrine where man elects God then God elects man

You have presented a doctrine that man acts and God responds and pays him salvation as wages do . There is no grace in that salvation doctrine (grace is unmerited favor)

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You have denied God what you claim for men that is "free will". God is forced to save men because they act correctly .. we need eliminate this scripture for our bibles

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
(not our deeds)

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

417 posted on 08/03/2005 9:40:14 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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