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To: PetroniusMaximus; Dr. Eckleburg
I never take anything from you as argumentative PM. I hope you don't misconstrued what I'm saying as argumentative. I think the verse of Jerusalem is an interesting text.

I assume you’re focusing in on “you were unwilling” (v37) which would seemingly imply the scribes and the Pharisees had a “choice” and they chose to ignore their choice. I would refer back to 2 Chronicles for a similar statement.

God gives people legitimate choices in life. But man, unless regenerated, will always choose the wrong path bringing forth God’s wrath. Simply because man cannot turn from his ways does not make the calls of God to repent any less sincere.

But why God doesn’t change the hearts of the scribes, Pharisees, and everyone for that matter to make everyone willing come to God is unknown. It is wrong to say that He doesn’t wish to intrude on their “free will” as some would implied in Matt 23:37. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart so that He could display His glory and 4,000 years later we still are talking about the Passover and Pharaoh’s destruction. Undoubtedly God hardened the scribes and Pharisees hearts so that He could accomplish His will at the cross.

The Pharisees and scribes were unwilling to turn to our Lord Jesus because that is man’s nature and God chose to leave them that way to accomplish His will. I see “you were unwilling” not so much as a condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees failure to repent but rather a statement of fact about their nature.

320 posted on 08/02/2005 7:48:33 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
***Simply because man cannot turn from his ways does not make the calls of God to repent any less sincere.***

An interesting point. Brings to mind the following verse I just posted to RnMomof7...

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"

Why would God command all men everywhere to do something they are utterly incompetent to do?

But I find the NT full of similar commands - commands that speak to the will - i.e. "Do this!, don't do this..." etc. It would seem that the NT presupposes that the will of man is a reality.




***God hardened Pharaoh’s heart so that He could display His glory and 4,000 years later we still are talking about the Passover and Pharaoh’s destruction.****

And interesting fact...

Exodus 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart,

Exodus 8:32
And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also,

The Bible states that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart after Pharaoh hardened his own heart - though clearly God knew it beforehand. Point is that the Bible seems to indicate that Pharaoh's choice to harden his played a role in his destruction.


***His will. I see “you were unwilling” not so much as a condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees failure to repent but rather a statement of fact about their nature.***

But does not Jesus weeping over Jerusalem indicate more than just his acceptance of the fact of their nature? No one weeps that a rock is a rock. But one could weep that a rock could have been one's child - if it had been willing.

Your thoughts?
583 posted on 08/04/2005 8:42:38 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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