Posted on 08/01/2005 8:16:45 PM PDT by buckeyesrule
Does God So Love the World?
by: John MacArthur
Love is the best known but least understood of all God's attributes. Almost everyone who believes in God these days sees Him as a God of love. I have even met agnostics who are quite certain that if God exists, He must be benevolent, compassionate, and loving.
All those things are infinitely true about God, of course, but not in the way most people think. Because of the influence of modern liberal theology, many suppose that God's love and goodness ultimately nullify His righteousness, justice, and holy wrath. They envision God as a benign heavenly grandfather-tolerant, affable, lenient, permissive, devoid of any real displeasure over sin, who without consideration of His holiness will benignly pass over sin and accept people as they are.
Liberal thinking about God's love also permeates much of evangelicalism today. We have lost the reality of God's wrath. We have disregarded His hatred for sin. The God most evangelicals now describe is all-loving and not at all angry. We have forgotten that "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31). We do not believe in that kind of God anymore.
We must recapture some of the holy terror that comes with a right understanding of God's righteous anger. We need to remember that God's wrath does burn against impenitent sinners (Psalm 38:1-3). That reality is the very thing that makes His love so amazing. Only those who see themselves as sinners in the hands of an angry God can fully appreciate the magnitude and wonder of His love.
In that regard, our generation is surely at a greater disadvantage than any previous age. We have been force-fed the doctrines of self-esteem for so long that most people don't really view themselves as sinners worthy of divine wrath. On top of that, religious liberalism, humanism, evangelical compromise, and ignorance of the Scriptures have all worked against a right understanding of who God is. Ironically, in an age that conceives of God as wholly loving, altogether devoid of wrath, few people really understand what God's love is all about.
How we address the misconception of the present age is crucial. We must not respond to an overemphasis on divine love by denying that God is love. Our generation's imbalanced view of God cannot be corrected by an equal imbalance in the opposite direction, a very real danger in some circles. I'm deeply concerned about a growing trend I've noticed-particularly among people committed to the biblical truth of God's sovereignty and divine election. Some of them flatly deny that God in any sense loves those whom He has not chosen for salvation.
I am troubled by the tendency of some-often young people newly infatuated with Reformed doctrine-who insist that God cannot possibly love those who never repent and believe. I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency.
The argument inevitably goes like this: Psalm 7:11 tells us "God is angry with the wicked every day." It seems reasonable to assume that if God loved everyone, He would have chosen everyone unto salvation. Therefore, God does not love the non-elect. Those who hold this view often go to great lengths to argue that John 3:16 cannot really mean God loves the whole world.
Perhaps the best-known argument for this view is found the unabridged edition of an otherwise excellent book, The Sovereignty of God, by A. W. Pink. Pink wrote, "God loves whom He chooses. He does not love everybody." [1] He further argued that the word world in John 3:16 ("For God so loved the world…") "refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contradistinction from 'the world of the ungodly.'"[2]
Pink was attempting to make the crucial point that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love. The gist of his argument is certainly valid: It is folly to think that God loves all alike, or that He is compelled by some rule of fairness to love everyone equally. Scripture teaches us that God loves because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7), because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone the same.
Nothing but God's own sovereign good pleasure compels Him to love sinners. Nothing but His own sovereign will governs His love. That has to be true, since there is certainly nothing in any sinner worthy of even the smallest degree of divine love.
Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. The fact that some sinners are not elected to salvation is no proof that God's attitude toward them is utterly devoid of sincere love. We know from Scripture that God is compassionate, kind, generous, and good even to the most stubborn sinners. Who can deny that those mercies flow out of God's boundless love? It is evident that they are showered even on unrepentant sinners.
We must understand that it is God's very nature to love. The reason our Lord commanded us to love our enemies is "in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45). Jesus clearly characterized His Father as One who loves even those who purposefully set themselves at enmity against Him.
At this point, however, an important distinction must be made: God loves believers with a particular love. God's love for the elect is an infinite, eternal, saving love. We know from Scripture that this great love was the very cause of our election (Ephesians 2:4). Such love clearly is not directed toward all of mankind indiscriminately, but is bestowed uniquely and individually on those whom God chose in eternity past.
But from that, it does not follow that God's attitude toward those He did not elect must be unmitigated hatred. Surely His pleading with the lost, His offers of mercy to the reprobate, and the call of the gospel to all who hear are all sincere expressions of the heart of a loving God. Remember, He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but tenderly calls sinners to turn from their evil ways and live.
Reformed theology has historically been the branch of evangelicalism most strongly committed to the sovereignty of God. At the same time, the mainstream of Reformed theologians have always affirmed the love of God for all sinners. John Calvin himself wrote regarding John 3:16, "[Two] points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish." [3]
Calvin continues to explain the biblical balance that both the gospel invitation and "the world" that God loves are by no means limited to the elect alone. He also recognized that God's electing, saving love is uniquely bestowed on His chosen ones.
Those same truths, reflecting a biblical balance, have been vigorously defended by a host of Reformed stalwarts, including Thomas Boston, John Brown, Andrew Fuller, W. G. T. Shedd, R. L. Dabney, B. B. Warfield, John Murray, R. B. Kuiper, and many others. In no sense does belief in divine sovereignty rule out the love of God for all humanity.
We are seeing today, in some circles, an almost unprecedented interest in the doctrines of the Reformation and the Puritan eras. I'm very encouraged by that in most respects. A return to those historic truths is, I'm convinced, absolutely necessary if the church is to survive. Yet there is a danger when overzealous souls misuse a doctrine like divine sovereignty to deny God's sincere offer of mercy to all sinners.
We must maintain a carefully balanced perspective as we pursue our study of God's love. God's love cannot be isolated from His wrath and vice versa. Nor are His love and wrath in opposition to each other like some mystical yin-yang principle. Both attributes are constant, perfect, without ebb or flow. His wrath coexists with His love; therefore, the two never contradict. Such are the perfections of God that we can never begin to comprehend these things. Above all, we must not set them against one another, as if there were somehow a discrepancy in God.
Both God's wrath and His love work to the same ultimate end-His glory. God is glorified in the condemnation of the wicked; He is glorified in every expression of love for all people without exception; and He is glorified in the particular love He manifests in saving His people.
Expressions of wrath and expressions of love-all are necessary to display God's full glory. We must never ignore any aspect of His character, nor magnify one to the exclusion of another. When we commit those errors, we throw off the biblical balance, distort the true nature of God, and diminish His real glory.
Does God so love the world? Emphatically-yes! Proclaim that truth far and wide, and do so against the backdrop of God's perfect wrath that awaits everyone who does not repent and turn to Christ.
Does the love of God differ in the breadth and depth and manner of its expression? Yes it does. Praise Him for the many manifestations of His love, especially toward the non-elect, and rejoice in the particular manifestation of His saving love for you who believe. God has chosen to display in you the glory of His redeeming grace.
[1]Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1930), 29-30.
[2]Ibid., 314.
[3]John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, William Pringle, trans. (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979 reprint), 123.
Adapted from The God Who Loves © 2001 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.
• Grace to You (Thursday, July 21, 2005)
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Whatever love is, love is not force. God does not predestine(force) people into heaven or hell. That would not be love in either case. People must chose heaven or hell for themselves.
If I were to put into a person's mind the ability to love me and the inability to reject me, I would be forcing them to love me. If I were to take away the ability of someone to love me, I would also be forcing that person. Furthermore, all the responsibility of who makes what decision would be mine. So how could I be upset at a person whom I did not give the ability to love me? God is not responsible for people's sin. People choose to remain in their lost state, not because God has not given them the ability to choose him, he has; but because they choose to reject God despite God's call to whoever wants him. It's all about personal motivation.
I don't know. People are individuals, so I guess it is between them and God.
So ... you figure that it's a negotiation ?
... as opposed to one universal standard for all ?
Yes.
Typically, when parties enter into neogotiation, ... each side will hold something with which they can leverage the negotiation to attain what they desire.
What leverage would you have in a negotiation with God ?
I believe that our relationships with God, certainly aren't typical of anything between humans. There is no leveraging with God.
Since the only two choices you gave me were universal standard, and negotiation, I went with negotiation, for want of a better choice. This, I don't believe is really true. God has a plan for us, and we do it...no universal standard (unless you want to call God's way a standard), and no real negotiation. We do as we are designed, which includes doing good things, or in some cases, what appears to be bad things. We are God's creations.
Before you may ask, I will say now, that I do not know what God's standard is for anyone, not even myself, as I live day to day, and what ever I do, I believe, is what God has planned for me. I do not know His plan.
I do not disagree that a part of the gospel is a glorious eternity with God
But to preach ( as some do) that "choosing Christ " now will give you a better life HERE is a lie from the pit of hell (I hear that all the time on Christian radio). He does not save us from the trials and tribulations of this sinful world, He helps us find joy in the midst of them.
One especially apostate woman implies that their problems will be solved if they only to pray like this "Lord I know I have made "MISTAKES" please forgive me and take me into your family , I give you my life.
There is not one biblical thing in that" prayer "
Instead of letting people THINK that Gods wonderful plan for your life , we ned to stress what Christ saves us from in ETERNITY. That can not be meaningful unless the prayer REALLY DOES BELIEVE THEY ARE A SINNER .
So we first have to stress that they have a NEED for a savior, (and they need to see that) not a need for a pleasant eternity in a mansion :)
Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Repent comes before belief.
To preach that God has a wonderful plan for your life implies that there is an earthly reward for their belief, it does not ask them to look at how God sees them or why they need a savior. THAT is a false gospel.
God had a wonderful plan for the apostles , one was to be a traitor and to facilitate the death of the lamb, the other 11 and Paul and Matthias were martyred for the gospel. The WONDERFUL plan will always be for Gods glory not mans
Soli Deo Gloria
I am asking for a biblical command to 'come to Christ" or to "choose " Christ. Do you have citations?
I think scripture shows the Shepherd finding the lost sheep not the lost sheep finding the shepherd.
I know it says 'Many are called but few are Chosen '( by Christ)
So I am looking for your text that man must CHOOSE Christ
See we do have agreement on some things :)
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Then could you help me understand the point you are making?
This is my understanding
God punishes and corrects us here. But to what end would hell be correction ? Is it so behavior is better in hell ? One can not get out of hell, so what is the purpose of ETERNAL correction?
Bump for later.
God does not FORCE the elect into heaven, He frees them to love and desire them
God does not FORCE the reprobate into hell, that is exactly what he freely chooses.
Most of us have been raised to worship at the altar of free will and choices
The fact is that all choices are made within a restricted set of circumstances
A man jumping off the empire state building can not exercise free will half way down.
Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?
All of these things were predestined by your creator
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
He could have had you born in India to Hindu parents in a low class. You never would have had an opportunity to go to school or to make the life choices you make today. You may never have heard the gospel to be saved.
Acts 17 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
All of our choices are governed by our preferences. Our preferences are part of that same creative process of the Father
Have you read the twin studies?
I read one that blew me away
Two brothers separated at birth. both had the same IQ, Both the same level of education, both loved firefighting (one was a professional and one a volunteer), both married women similar in appearance and both wives were named Jean. Both men had the same number of kids...and both drove red cars
Now these studies are done to show us the effects of genetics.
I know the designer of genetics. And His name is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is the great "I AM"
God has designed each of us in such a way that we will have preferences that will lead us to certain choices.
Because of the fall men will never seek God
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In order for man to choose Christ he must have a preference for Christ. But the fall removed that preference. Man is spiritually dead.He can not choose life
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see
So God gives those that are His a New heart
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
God then gives us a heart that will desire Him.. A heart that can see Him and choose Him...
Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ
I find it so interesting that people resent the idea that God has foreordained our eternity. If our father so loved us to foreordain our present, how much more important is our eternity?
***So I am looking for your text that man must CHOOSE Christ***
2 Corinthians 5
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Matthew 10:40
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
This is not a salvation verse, it is speaking of literally people receiving the disciples into there home and taking care of them
So this is not an answer to my question
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Not one of those scriptures speak to "choosing" Christ or receiving Christ as YOUR "Savior"
In each of them man responds to Christ , it is Christ that initiates the contact.
Note who it is that gives the POWER to become the son of God.. it is NOT the will of men
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Consider this when applied to individuals
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
One is God knocking and the other is man CHOOSING to knock
There are various teaching that that quote was specific to the church . I like Gill alot and this is what he says of Christ knocking
Behold, I stand at the door and knock,.... The phrase of standing at the door may be expressive of the near approach, or sudden coming of Christ to judgment, see James 5:9; and his knocking may signify the notice that will be given of it, by some of the immediate forerunners and signs of his coming; which yet will be observed but by a few, such a general sleepiness will have seized all professors of religion; and particularly may intend the midnight cry, which will, in its issue, rouse them all:
if any man hear my voice; in the appearances of things and providences in the world:
and open the door; or show a readiness for the coming of Christ, look and wait for it, and be like such that will receive him with a welcome:
I will come unto him, and sup with him, and he with me; to and among these will Christ appear when he comes in person; and these being like wise virgins, ready, having his grace in their hearts, and his righteousness upon them, he will take them at once into the marriage chamber, and shut the door upon the rest; when they shall enjoy a thousand years communion with him in person here on earth; when the Lamb on the throne will feed them with the fruit of the tree of life, and lead them to fountains of living water, and his tabernacle shall be among them.
God does not FORCE the reprobate into hell, that is exactly what he freely chooses.
What is predestination to you then? God frees one, you say? He frees them, yet they have no choice but to choose God. That's not force? The reprobate has no ability to choose God. That's a choice?
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
That's force. If I say here is an apple, but you can't have an orange, I have forced you to choose only one kind of fruit.
Let me see if you believe in free will. Do you make the choice to get out of bed in the morning, or has God, somehow, predestined, before the beginning of time, that you would get out of bed this morning, and therefore, forced you out of bed this morning through His all-encompassing Sovereign power?
I like that verse. Jesus knocks on the door and waits for the person to open it. He doesn't knock it over, drag a dead person out, and raise him from the dead.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Predestination flows from the sovereignty of God. It is God choosing who will choose to come.
On the day of my salvation I fell on my knees in repentance and I gave my worthless life to Christ. The thought of "choice" or who was choosing who or why, never occurred me . I was in awe of God loving someone like me . Who was choosing who was not important
The next day I remember thinking that the entire series of events leading up to my salvation had to have been predestined. But as often happens getting on with my life the who chose who got lost in my Christian life , until a few years ago.
This scripture captures my experience
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
You have heard or read that God gives us a new heart. He quickens us while we are still dead in sin, and that new and quickened heart breaks the "bondage of the will" that we had lived under. Then and only them will we desire to repent and come to Christ.
Before that moment we like most of the world did exactly what we willed to do , we did all those things that we preferred to do. Christ was not a preference, living as we chose was.
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
That's force. If I say here is an apple, but you can't have an orange, I have forced you to choose only one kind of fruit.
Is that anything like you are a man and not a woman ( or vice versa) ,and no you can not fly off that building, no you do not have an IQ that will allow you to do brain surgery ?
You did not have the ability to choose your sex or race or year or place of birth or the financial status of your parents
All of those things limited the choices available to you , and every one of them was decided by your creator. Are you angry with God for that?
Every breath I take is predestined by God, the ability or need to get out of my bed at a certain time is predestined by God .
My pastor explains it this way ( please be patient with me on this)
He draws a large circle and then a small one inside of it. The large portion is labeled as Gods ordained will, the smaller circle is labeled Human volition ( free will).
He points to the small circle and says those are are every day choices, where do we live? go to school? who do we marry? how many children do we have? etc. Those are all choices we make, yet he points out that each of those decisions are your free will choices YET they are all within Gods ordained will.
So yes I do choose many things every day, but every one of those choices was predestined for me as the ordained will of God in my life, before the foundation of the world.
He dresses the lilies of the field, not a sparrow falls from the sky without His ordination, he counts every hair on my head .
I am so honored that I have a God that is so concerned with me and my life.
I agree with this. It's unexplainable, to a certain extent, but I believe that is what the Bible teaches.
Does Jesus choose the door He knocks on or do men?
Look what happens when man chooses to knock on the door of God
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.
He doesn't knock it over, drag a dead person out, and raise him from the dead.
Jhn 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
Jhn 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
He called me forth, has He done the same thing for you?
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
No offense meant to you Calvinists but the fact is, we don't "know" a whit of what you guys seem to think we know. And vain striving is not necessarily pleasing to God. He gave us commandments to follow, which a ten year-old child can understand, and I don't recall any Gospel telling us He wants us to try to figure Him out beyond that.
I go with Alexander Pope: Know then thyself, Presume not God to scan, the proper study of mankind is Man.
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