Posted on 08/01/2005 8:16:45 PM PDT by buckeyesrule
Does God So Love the World?
by: John MacArthur
Love is the best known but least understood of all God's attributes. Almost everyone who believes in God these days sees Him as a God of love. I have even met agnostics who are quite certain that if God exists, He must be benevolent, compassionate, and loving.
All those things are infinitely true about God, of course, but not in the way most people think. Because of the influence of modern liberal theology, many suppose that God's love and goodness ultimately nullify His righteousness, justice, and holy wrath. They envision God as a benign heavenly grandfather-tolerant, affable, lenient, permissive, devoid of any real displeasure over sin, who without consideration of His holiness will benignly pass over sin and accept people as they are.
Liberal thinking about God's love also permeates much of evangelicalism today. We have lost the reality of God's wrath. We have disregarded His hatred for sin. The God most evangelicals now describe is all-loving and not at all angry. We have forgotten that "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31). We do not believe in that kind of God anymore.
We must recapture some of the holy terror that comes with a right understanding of God's righteous anger. We need to remember that God's wrath does burn against impenitent sinners (Psalm 38:1-3). That reality is the very thing that makes His love so amazing. Only those who see themselves as sinners in the hands of an angry God can fully appreciate the magnitude and wonder of His love.
In that regard, our generation is surely at a greater disadvantage than any previous age. We have been force-fed the doctrines of self-esteem for so long that most people don't really view themselves as sinners worthy of divine wrath. On top of that, religious liberalism, humanism, evangelical compromise, and ignorance of the Scriptures have all worked against a right understanding of who God is. Ironically, in an age that conceives of God as wholly loving, altogether devoid of wrath, few people really understand what God's love is all about.
How we address the misconception of the present age is crucial. We must not respond to an overemphasis on divine love by denying that God is love. Our generation's imbalanced view of God cannot be corrected by an equal imbalance in the opposite direction, a very real danger in some circles. I'm deeply concerned about a growing trend I've noticed-particularly among people committed to the biblical truth of God's sovereignty and divine election. Some of them flatly deny that God in any sense loves those whom He has not chosen for salvation.
I am troubled by the tendency of some-often young people newly infatuated with Reformed doctrine-who insist that God cannot possibly love those who never repent and believe. I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency.
The argument inevitably goes like this: Psalm 7:11 tells us "God is angry with the wicked every day." It seems reasonable to assume that if God loved everyone, He would have chosen everyone unto salvation. Therefore, God does not love the non-elect. Those who hold this view often go to great lengths to argue that John 3:16 cannot really mean God loves the whole world.
Perhaps the best-known argument for this view is found the unabridged edition of an otherwise excellent book, The Sovereignty of God, by A. W. Pink. Pink wrote, "God loves whom He chooses. He does not love everybody." [1] He further argued that the word world in John 3:16 ("For God so loved the world…") "refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contradistinction from 'the world of the ungodly.'"[2]
Pink was attempting to make the crucial point that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love. The gist of his argument is certainly valid: It is folly to think that God loves all alike, or that He is compelled by some rule of fairness to love everyone equally. Scripture teaches us that God loves because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7), because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone the same.
Nothing but God's own sovereign good pleasure compels Him to love sinners. Nothing but His own sovereign will governs His love. That has to be true, since there is certainly nothing in any sinner worthy of even the smallest degree of divine love.
Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. The fact that some sinners are not elected to salvation is no proof that God's attitude toward them is utterly devoid of sincere love. We know from Scripture that God is compassionate, kind, generous, and good even to the most stubborn sinners. Who can deny that those mercies flow out of God's boundless love? It is evident that they are showered even on unrepentant sinners.
We must understand that it is God's very nature to love. The reason our Lord commanded us to love our enemies is "in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45). Jesus clearly characterized His Father as One who loves even those who purposefully set themselves at enmity against Him.
At this point, however, an important distinction must be made: God loves believers with a particular love. God's love for the elect is an infinite, eternal, saving love. We know from Scripture that this great love was the very cause of our election (Ephesians 2:4). Such love clearly is not directed toward all of mankind indiscriminately, but is bestowed uniquely and individually on those whom God chose in eternity past.
But from that, it does not follow that God's attitude toward those He did not elect must be unmitigated hatred. Surely His pleading with the lost, His offers of mercy to the reprobate, and the call of the gospel to all who hear are all sincere expressions of the heart of a loving God. Remember, He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but tenderly calls sinners to turn from their evil ways and live.
Reformed theology has historically been the branch of evangelicalism most strongly committed to the sovereignty of God. At the same time, the mainstream of Reformed theologians have always affirmed the love of God for all sinners. John Calvin himself wrote regarding John 3:16, "[Two] points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish." [3]
Calvin continues to explain the biblical balance that both the gospel invitation and "the world" that God loves are by no means limited to the elect alone. He also recognized that God's electing, saving love is uniquely bestowed on His chosen ones.
Those same truths, reflecting a biblical balance, have been vigorously defended by a host of Reformed stalwarts, including Thomas Boston, John Brown, Andrew Fuller, W. G. T. Shedd, R. L. Dabney, B. B. Warfield, John Murray, R. B. Kuiper, and many others. In no sense does belief in divine sovereignty rule out the love of God for all humanity.
We are seeing today, in some circles, an almost unprecedented interest in the doctrines of the Reformation and the Puritan eras. I'm very encouraged by that in most respects. A return to those historic truths is, I'm convinced, absolutely necessary if the church is to survive. Yet there is a danger when overzealous souls misuse a doctrine like divine sovereignty to deny God's sincere offer of mercy to all sinners.
We must maintain a carefully balanced perspective as we pursue our study of God's love. God's love cannot be isolated from His wrath and vice versa. Nor are His love and wrath in opposition to each other like some mystical yin-yang principle. Both attributes are constant, perfect, without ebb or flow. His wrath coexists with His love; therefore, the two never contradict. Such are the perfections of God that we can never begin to comprehend these things. Above all, we must not set them against one another, as if there were somehow a discrepancy in God.
Both God's wrath and His love work to the same ultimate end-His glory. God is glorified in the condemnation of the wicked; He is glorified in every expression of love for all people without exception; and He is glorified in the particular love He manifests in saving His people.
Expressions of wrath and expressions of love-all are necessary to display God's full glory. We must never ignore any aspect of His character, nor magnify one to the exclusion of another. When we commit those errors, we throw off the biblical balance, distort the true nature of God, and diminish His real glory.
Does God so love the world? Emphatically-yes! Proclaim that truth far and wide, and do so against the backdrop of God's perfect wrath that awaits everyone who does not repent and turn to Christ.
Does the love of God differ in the breadth and depth and manner of its expression? Yes it does. Praise Him for the many manifestations of His love, especially toward the non-elect, and rejoice in the particular manifestation of His saving love for you who believe. God has chosen to display in you the glory of His redeeming grace.
[1]Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1930), 29-30.
[2]Ibid., 314.
[3]John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, William Pringle, trans. (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979 reprint), 123.
Adapted from The God Who Loves © 2001 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.
• Grace to You (Thursday, July 21, 2005)
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You apparently haven't followed the conversation.
I was asked HOW casting anyone into hell could be loving for that person being punished.
You have read my response.
Good song .
I like this one
And though this world, with devils filled, should threaten to undo us,
We will not fear, for God hath willed His truth to triumph through us:
The Prince of Darkness grim, we tremble not for him;
His rage we can endure, for lo, his doom is sure,
One little word shall fell him.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/m/i/mightyfo.htm
I followed the conversation. Your answer just makes no sense to me.
Casting someone into the eternally tormenting fires of hell can be loving towards that person how...?
It's almost as if you've taken this "God is love" to an illogical extreme by stating that condemning someone to hell is an act of love.
God is much more precise than that. God's love and mercy are experienced in heaven. God's divine retribution is found in hell.
They are not the same thing.
Amen!
"Words and music by Martin Luther."
"...for God hath willed His truth to triumph through us..."
If you really want to know what God is like, you must read His revelation of Himself in scripture not look to other imperfect beings to explain what you can find out directly from Him.
"The Gospel offers Mercy and Grace to all who believe, but it is only those whom God enables to believe who will actually receive it."
"By its very nature, Mercy cannot exist except against the backdrop of Justice. Also, Mercy by its very nature is selective. whereas Justice is not."
Your sentences do not make sense. If man is incabable of believing and God enables him to believe, then he has already received God's mercy and grace in order to believe.
If, "By its very nature, Mercy cannot exist except against the backdrop of Justice. Also, Mercy by its very nature is selective. whereas Justice is not", then Justice demands that mercy be offered to all, since by its nature it treats all the same. You are looking at justice only in the punishment, it also applies to the offer of salvation, mercy and grace.
If "God is Love" is true then casting someone into hell is loving.
1. Certainly for the rest of creation. (It's loving to a community to cast a serial burglar into prison.)
2. Arguably for the individual. (It's best for the burglar to be removed from the opportunity to act out his criminality.)
I think those are both defensible positions in a debate. I think you see the logic of them. You simply reject them as opinions that you would hold.
But...that's OK. We're both pretty independent minded. :>)
*** I've never gone to jail, committed rape, murder or robbery, or been convicted of a crime..are my hands clean?***
Go here and take the quick test...
http://www.needgod.com/
Come back and tell me how you score.
What is your god like, exactly?
How do you decide which characteristics you want him/her to have?
Thank you, Bear_Slayer.
Hopefully you understand I agree with your posts. I was just curious if you or any other Christians were willing to take a definitive stab at answering the question. No one was, which is actually something of a relief. :o)
And since this really makes little sense, perhaps the error of the logic lies in maintaining "God is love" to the exclusion of all else.
As someone said earlier, maybe "God is sovereign" is more accurate.
I don't think there will be anyone in hell who doesn't wish he wasn't there.
And if we diminish the terrible penalty for sin, we diminish the sacrifice of Christ for paying that penalty for us.
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." -- Romans 12:19
So Paul tells us that God's wrath equals vengeance equals justice. Wrath does not equal love.
"And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them." -- Ezekiel 25:17.
Even Samuel L. Jackson shuddered at that one. 8~)
None of that is true, Marlowe.
No one who comes to Christ in faith is turned away. How could they be turned away when they are being safely led by the Holy Ghost according to the will of God?
But all who do come have been first regenerated by God, whether they know it or not.
Fallen man is incapable of saving himself. God alone saves by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ. It is an unmerited, non-refundable gift.
#607 God Judgment is given to sinners, those guilty of sin. It is Just, and it is Fair.
someone care to clarify a finer point for those of us lurking ?
***And since this really makes little sense, perhaps the error of the logic lies in maintaining "God is love" to the exclusion of all else.***
But is it not true that God is one "thing" - one substance, not divided into parts?
Are not the attributes of God divided for the ease of human understanding, and God's love, holiness, wrath, mercy etc. are all one?
If we were to say that God is one "thing", I believe it would be Spirit. Now how do you differentiate God as Spirit from the other spirits? I think by looking at those things which distinguish Him from all other creatures and calling those things the attributes that make up His glory.
In answer to the first that God is fair as man defines it Paul says God is "fair" in Romans 3:26. He is "just" and the definition of just is fair. Paul was using a common Greek term that the Roman Christians would understand, not some esoteric term that you had to have the secret decoder ring to decipher.
As to the second question "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". "There is none righteous, no not one". "The wages of sin is death". That sums up man's natural state and is just and fair since all are held to the same standard.
That makes no sense !
Justice is giving men what they deserve. Mercy is NOT giving man what he deserves.
You are spouting mans definition of fairness but even men do not accept that as truth, if they did then we would offer Charles Manson a choice on if he would like to be treated like Martha Steward.
It is mercy precisely because it is not mandatory or given to everyone .
Justice from God would be all men burning in hell. Mercy is He saves some, not because they deserve it , not because they have earned it, not because it is something He must do to be fair .
If it was for any of those reasons it would cease to be mercy.
B_D the problem is you think that man has an intrinsic goodness that makes him worth saving so God to be fair has to offer it to all men
If God was fair we all would burn in hell
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
This is how God sees us, it is a wonder He saves any
He could just annihilate them right?
Hell is punishment, I do believe that God could protect us from evil men if He so chose, but I see God as sovereign over all things
I would be surprised if you could defend this from scripture.. want to try?
"When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers." - Proverbs 21: 15
What is it that you want me to defend?
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