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To: gbcdoj

This statement conflicts with the teaching of the Orthodox Church: "Obviously this could not be possible at all if the sacraments of heretics were not, in fact, effectual to salvation for those belonging to the the one, holy, catholic, apostolic, and Roman Church."

Apostolic Canon XLVI.

We ordain that a bishop, or presbyter, who has admitted the baptism or sacrifice of heretics, be deposed. For what concord hath Christ with Belial, or what part hath a believer with an infidel?

Apostolic Canon XLVII.

Let a bishop or presbyter who shall baptize again one who has rightly received baptism, or who shall not baptize one who has been polluted by the ungodly, be deposed, as despising the cross and death of the Lord, and not making a distinction between the true priests and the false.

Apostolic Canon LXVIII.

If any bishop, presbyter, or deacon, shall receive from anyone a second ordination, let both the ordained and the ordainer be deposed; unless indeed it be proved that he had his ordination from heretics; for those who have been baptized or ordained by such persons cannot be either of the faithful or of the clergy

THE BEGINNING OF CANON 2 OF THE COUNCIL "IN TRULLO": Declaring the Apostolic Canons to be a part of Orthodox canon law.

"It has also seemed good to this holy Council, that the eighty-five canons, received and ratified by the holy and blessed Fathers before us, and also handed down to us in the name of the holy and glorious Apostles, should from this time forth remain firm and unshaken for the cure of souls and the healing of disorders. And in these canons we are bidden to receive the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles [written] by Clement."


15 posted on 07/31/2005 6:47:08 PM PDT by Graves (Remember Esphigmenou - Orthodoxy or Death!)
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To: Graves
unless indeed it be proved that he had his ordination from heretics; for those who have been baptized or ordained by such persons cannot be either of the faithful or of the clergy

Hmm. The dubious "Apostolic Canons" never accepted by the Catholic Church - or the First Council of Nicaea?

Canon 8. Concerning those who have given themselves the name of Cathars [the Novatians], and who from time to time come over publicly to the catholic and apostolic church, this holy and great synod decrees that they may remain among the clergy after receiving an imposition of hands. But before all this it is fitting that they give a written undertaking that they will accept and follow the decrees of the catholic church ... when some come over in places where there is a bishop or presbyter belonging to the catholic church, it is evident that the bishop of the church will hold the bishop's dignity, and that the one given the title and name of bishop among the so-called Cathars will have the rank of presbyter, unless the bishop thinks fit to let him share in the honour of the title.

16 posted on 07/31/2005 6:59:14 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Without His assisting grace, the law is “the letter which killeth;” - Augustine.)
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To: Graves
We ordain that a bishop, or presbyter, who has admitted the baptism or sacrifice of heretics, be deposed. ... those who have been baptized or ordained by such persons cannot be either of the faithful or of the clergy

Or perhaps what St. Siricius declared:

On the first page of your letter, therefore, you indicated that multitudes who were baptized by the impious Arians were hastening to the catholic faith, and that certain of our brothers wished to baptize these same people again. This is not allowed, since both the Apostle forbids and the canons oppose doing it; and after the Council of Rimini was annulled, the general decrees sent to the provinces by my predecessor of venerable memory Liberius prohibit it. We unite these people, and the Novatianists and other heretics, to the assembly of Catholics, just as it was constituted in the synod, solely through invocation of the sevenfold Spirit by imposition of the bishop's hand. Indeed all the East and the West preserves this practice, and it is also inappropriate henceforth for you to deviate from that path, if you do not wish to be separated from our company by synodal sentence. (Letter to Himerius of Tarragona, 385 AD)

As Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church, he, unlike the pseudonymous author of the "Apostolic Canons", actually had authority to decree men excommuicate.

17 posted on 07/31/2005 7:02:58 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Without His assisting grace, the law is “the letter which killeth;” - Augustine.)
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