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A brief Q&A which I thought gives a good overview of both the doctrinal view and its practical application to a real life situation. This article is intended for discussion and edification, NOT as an avenue for criticizing or condemning any individuals in this forum.
1 posted on 07/22/2005 8:40:24 AM PDT by Frumanchu
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To: Frumanchu

Sure she can.
She needs to read "How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World" by Harry Brown.
Now that she has told him that she intends to divorce him, she must do it. Things will never be the same in that marriage and the potential for violence is now extremely high.


2 posted on 07/22/2005 8:46:33 AM PDT by NetValue (No enemy has inflicted as much damage on America as liberals.)
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To: Frumanchu

"In any event, I don’t believe that emotional abuse constitutes grounds for divorce in either the Old or the New Testament."

If I understand what Christ taught correctly (Note: I am not a Christian), the greatest commandment is twofold; to love God with all of one's heart, mind, and strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself.

Also, I understand that love is an action, not a feeling. One loves by engaging in behaviors that are loving.

Emotional abuse is not a loving behavior. Therefore, one who consistently engages in that behavior is not following Christ's command, and cannot rightfully claim to be a Christian.


3 posted on 07/22/2005 8:46:39 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse
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To: topcat54; Gamecock; RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; nobdysfool; ksen; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; ...

Ping to a few saints for discussion


4 posted on 07/22/2005 8:47:08 AM PDT by Frumanchu (Saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone.)
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To: Frumanchu

Bump for later.


6 posted on 07/22/2005 9:03:19 AM PDT by A2J (Oh, I wish I was in Dixie...)
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To: Frumanchu
Absolutely, right on, correct! Wow...I never thought I'd see a spiritual doctrinal issue correctly illustrated here. I am in shock. That has to be one of the better discussions of divorce and remarriage I've ever seen.

The liberal world tries to twist the Bible to meet its sensual needs or ignores it altogether. What a heartache, if true, for this woman to be in that situation with her husband. However, both need counseling in several facets of their lives to overcome their difficulties. Her husband has the right to divorce her for infidelity, but this does not absolve him of his responsibility for creating a wretched relationship, if he did.

If she divorces from her husband, she can not scripturally marry again per what Jesus says in Matthew 19. People simply need to excercise a lot more discretion BEFORE marrying and get their spiritual lives in order BEFORE marrying. Such would go a long way toward resolving problems.

8 posted on 07/22/2005 9:10:40 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Frumanchu
In any event, I don’t believe that emotional abuse constitutes grounds for divorce in either the Old or the New Testament.

I do consider real abuse to be a form of abandonment. If abandonment is putting distance between yourself and your spouse, then abuse is forcing your spouse to a great distance.

I disagree that emotional abuse is somehow not as bad as physical abuse. Physical abuse is more immediately dangerous the physical well-being of the abused spouse, but emotional abuse absolutely cuts the heart. I don't have the stats currently at fingertip, but emotional abuse is more an indicator of an impending divorce than is physical abuse.

Emotional abuse is one partner demonstrating his/her contempt for the other. It is a deadly, poisonous environment, and unless healed, the only way to deal with it and maintain one's sanity is to put distance between the two parties.

9 posted on 07/22/2005 9:11:49 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Frumanchu

Oh, by the way, the worst students that I have to deal with in school come from broken homes or from homes where parents have divorced and remarried sometimes more than once. Such children are frequently very difficult to deal with.


10 posted on 07/22/2005 9:12:41 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Frumanchu

May be goin' to hell for divorcing a drunk?

Darn.


14 posted on 07/22/2005 9:36:19 AM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: Frumanchu

Bump for later.

God hates divorce.


36 posted on 07/22/2005 10:35:22 AM PDT by k2blader (Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo? YES - 83.8%. FR Opinion Poll.)
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To: Frumanchu

Of Marrige it is wriiten in the Bible,"What God has jined together let no man put asunder" and in the vows"TILL DEATH DO US PART" ring any bells!
God put you two together the first time for a reason...pray and dump the second party..it will only bring worse promblems upon you..and go to confession!


42 posted on 07/22/2005 11:53:32 AM PDT by Rosary (Pray the rosary daily,wear the Brown scapular)
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To: Frumanchu
This article is intended for discussion and edification, NOT as an avenue for criticizing or condemning

Hmmm... sounds pretty 'lukewarm' to me.

55 posted on 07/22/2005 3:57:51 PM PDT by papertyger (Power concedes nothing without a demand. – Frederick Douglass)
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To: Frumanchu

An excellent article. Neither my ex nor I cheated on the other; and we are both Christians. Stayed married for the benefit of the kids until they were grown, and it was well worth the sacrifice of putting their needs first.

We never should have married each other in the first place, but we have three very spiritually mature Christian kids who are doing well.

Goes to show that God can even use our mistakes for good.


67 posted on 07/22/2005 5:27:14 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: Frumanchu

Wow. This is one of the best articles I've ever seen in the religion forum. A bump for the night owls.


87 posted on 07/22/2005 11:52:15 PM PDT by Thinkin' Gal
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To: Frumanchu

Matthew 19.3-9

"And the pharisees and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?" he answered, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one? So they are longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together let no man put asunder." They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultry."

Here are some excerpts from the Catholic Catachism.

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. he abrogates the accomodations that had slipped into the old law. Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."

2383 The seperation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of children, or protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental mariage is the sign [the church is the bride of Christ]. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanant adultry.

1651 Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves seperated from the church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons: They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to atttend the sacrifice of the mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of pennance and thus implore, day by day, God's grace.
Clearly in the Scripture passages, Jesus did not condemn divorce outright, though he maintained it was not God's original intent: "From the beginning it was not so" and "What God has joined together let no man put asunder". Thus the Catholic Church teaches in the catachism 1649 certain situations may call for a physical seperation such as infidelity and abuse, but spouses do not cease to be husband and wife in God's eyes. Couples also have a recourse to "civil" divorce to allow for legal rights and care of children. But even then the church maintains that the spouses are still husband and wife in God's eyes. Let me clarify the phrase "in God's eyes" means that the original marriage was valid and recognized by the church. Therefore a new union cannot be recognized as valid (catachism 1650), (Mark 10:11).


90 posted on 07/23/2005 5:24:16 AM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: Frumanchu
After a divorce with biblical warrant, both parties may remarry. I do not see Scripture prohibiting remarriage from a guilty party who brings about a divorce. Rather, the Bible seems to say that a married couple is in covenant, and that this covenant can only be severed in certain cases. Once it is severed, both parties are free. One person cannot have covenantal obligations to another without that other person having reciprocal covenant obligations.

I think I agreed up until this part. Matthew 19:9 in no way authorizes the guilty party to profit from their sin. Remarriage in such a case is continued adultery.

104 posted on 07/23/2005 7:07:23 AM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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To: Frumanchu

Interesting.

The Catholic Church would recognize verbal abuse as well as physical abuse. As witnesses are asked anyway and verbal abuse and extreme controlling can be told of in the same manner as physical abuse.


113 posted on 07/23/2005 4:47:43 PM PDT by Gazoo
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To: Frumanchu
This article is intended for discussion and edification, NOT as an avenue for criticizing or condemning any individuals in this forum.

Well, too bad. What you intended is inconsequential.
This is a conservative news forum and anything posted is subject to the whim and pleasure of anyone reading it.

This arrested development female needs to grow up. And, although too late, she must understand that threats are the defining tool of the immature.

Good luck to her. My advices is to grow up.

129 posted on 07/24/2005 1:11:56 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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To: Frumanchu

Let's see. She decides she doesn't like her husband and has an affair.

I'd say he has grounds for divorce, custody of the children, and the majority of marital assets.

Of course, she'll get the kids, the house, most of the money and big monthly checks for years to come.


135 posted on 07/24/2005 6:01:08 PM PDT by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
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