Posted on 07/22/2005 8:40:23 AM PDT by Frumanchu
Quote where I condemned someone who has been through a divorce.
Or please stop doing to me what you *feel* I'm doing to others.
So, what's yer point? Saying God hates divorce is like saying fish swim in water. You're stating the obvious. If you have something to add, then say it.
I don't understand the tone of your post. Do you think it's "legalistic" to discuss the effects of sin and what Jesus had to say about it? This was a very informative thread until you and another decided to hijack it and turn it into an "us vs. them" theological battle.
It was very one-sided until we came in to share opposing viewpoints ;)
Jesus was specific about the allowable reason for divorce. Inherent within that allowance is an implicit freedom from sin for the one who divorces for biblical reasons, i.e. adultery on the part of the covenant spouse. He also highlights the fact that for any other reason, both parties sin, and future partners of those parties become embroiled in the sins of the original parties. Now, it is a forgiveable sin, but that doesn't give leave to go ahead and commit it. Sins have consequences, and set into motion chains of events that are not stopped just because the sinner has asked for and received forgiveness from God. Sinners still live with the effects and consequences of their sins.
So, what contribution do you have for us?
With what as an operating definition? Contempt? That's so open ended as to be useless.
The prediction would be...
Glad to see you understand where I'm coming from. Much of the rest of this thread is so full of sophistry as to be worthy of contempt in its own right.
In practice, I find the conclusion of "emotional abuse" parallels the dog owner that concludes his pet should be put to sleep, because every time he kicks it, it tries to bite him.
No it was very civil until you and another began accusing everyone who disagreed with you of being Pharisees. You could have disagreed without condemning fellow Christians to hell.
Well, too bad. What you intended is inconsequential.
This is a conservative news forum and anything posted is subject to the whim and pleasure of anyone reading it.
This arrested development female needs to grow up. And, although too late, she must understand that threats are the defining tool of the immature.
Good luck to her. My advices is to grow up.
Please show us where any of us did that. You accuse usd of over-reacting, but it looks to me like it's you who is over-reacting.
Once again, do you have anything of value to add to the discussion, other than trying to publicly bawl out people because they don't act the way you think they should?
Thanks for your participation. Have a nice day. ;)
Sorry I wasn't clear. It's not the vow to God, it's the vow to God that will become broken if the person divorces. The vow is made til death with the exceptions of the non-believer leaving the believer or adultry. Otherwise the vow til death is therefore a lie to God unless kept.
Which God will forgive just as He has you for the thousands of lies that you've told and/or thought in your life
Lay out all your sins on the table and let's talk about them. In detail, and what God has to say about each one. That will make it "fair".
Otherwise, leave people alone ;)
Let's see. She decides she doesn't like her husband and has an affair.
I'd say he has grounds for divorce, custody of the children, and the majority of marital assets.
Of course, she'll get the kids, the house, most of the money and big monthly checks for years to come.
My understanding is forgiveness of sin only comes after repentence. IF, as this gal suggests, she marries the one with whom she has had adultry, how can she repent when she hasn't cleared herself of the sin?
Have you ever dealt with an area of sin in your life that was persistent, that, it didn't just go away because you said or thought, "I repent!". You struggled.
I have
The mad "repentance" preachers (I'm not saying that's you) leave too many unanswered questions. If forgiveness is only based upon your "sufficient repentance", then we're all dead.
But, thank God, it isn't. Jesus, who tells us to forgive seventy times seven, gives us the same grace from Himself. And as I'm sure you know, the intention of "seventy times seven" isn't to put an exact number of offenses, like "capping a limit" to forgiveness. Rather it means, YOU FORGIVE ALWAYS. Every time it happens, you MUST forgive
Don't you think the Lord affords the same forgiveness to us? I do. I believe that firmly, and experience it daily.
Now before someone accuses me of creating an "excuse for sin", see that I don't make use of that kind of grace, that way. I use His grace to work my way OUT of sin, but that takes time
With this issue of divorce, I'll fall back on a great teaching I heard on the subject from Jon Courson. He was expounding on Jesus' words that "whoever marries her commits adultery", and Courson pointed out in the Greek, that the "commit", is a one-time offense, NOT an "ongoing" thing. In other words, she did it, and IT'S OVER.
So move on, was his point (and mine)
Otherwise, you force people to wear a "scarlet letter", and that's NOT from God, and never will be.
I don't necessarily agree with every single thing that I hear from Jon Courson, but I thought that was a tremendously insightful nugget of spiritual truth from the Holy Spirti
Could have also been from the Holy Spirit ;)
And what about someone that has divorced, already remarried, and had children with the second spouse? What would you suggest in this case? What would you suggest if the former spouse was still faithful? If the former spouse was not faithful? Should The second marriage be dissolved so as to 'stop' that sin thereby breaking up the family or is it possible to repent without breaking up the second family?
My #36 was just an "at first glance" post. As shown there, I sometimes type "bump for later" meaning that I plan to come back later to read the article and comment more fully. The "God hates divorce" part was simply a thought that popped into my head upon reading the article's title because there had been a previous thread on which that was being discussed.
What bothers me is that a few folks seemed to automatically assume that my saying "God hates divorce" translated into "God hates people who divorce", or something similar. That is neither what I said nor what I meant.
BTW, yes, I did return to read the article, and it's excellent. You may already know I'm pretty clearly on record on FR as being someone who believes divorce is an extremely bad thing which devastates people tremendously and should be avoided at all costs. I believe divorce is one of the main reasons why our society is suffering, largely because it severely hurts children.
Note that I did not say there is no forgiveness for repentant people who have gone through unbiblical divorce. Note that I did not say God in His mercy cannot work in spite of such a thing to bring good into people's lives. I believe both can happen!
I could add a lot more, but this'll do for now. Hope that clears things up for you.
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