/sarc
I am just now reading this conversation (very late as usual) but I note that nobody mentioned (that I saw) that Race is quoting the KJV: I was under the impression (imparted by you, I think) that the KJV is not good authority for meaning because it is a translation of a translation of a translation ... great for beauty of language but not a good authority. Am I right about this? Interesting posts by all. FR educates me, and I love it when the Catholics come out swinging!