Fathers, Husbands and Rebels: Married Priests

LA times ^ | July 8, 2005 | Elizabeth Mehren

[gamarob1]

Fathers, Husbands and Rebels: Acting outside the Catholic Church, many married priests are attracting a following.

BOSTON — The priests came from three states, converging on a suburban park one Sunday to conduct an outdoor Mass. Wearing white vestments with rainbow-hued stoles, they led the worshippers in prayer and song. They stuck closely to traditional Roman Catholic liturgy.

But as they raised their arms in blessing, the five men revealed unmistakable proof of defiance: All wore wedding bands.

These men, who still consider themselves Roman Catholic priests, have wives, children — and unflinching commitments to their 2,000-year-old faith. As married priests, they say, they are not heretical anomalies but, instead, are following a model set by priests and popes in the earliest days of their church. They are part of a growing national network of thousands of deeply religious men who believe marriage does not compromise their ability to serve as spiritual ministers.

[NYer]

Can a priest who is part of the Catholic church marry today if he wants too?

The discipline of celibacy among priests is one of the distinctive marks of the Roman Catholic tradition. Anyone who chooses to become a priest accepts the discipline. The Eastern rite, Lutheranism, and Episcopalianism, on the other hand, have a long tradition of married priests and the infrastructure and experience to handle it. However, Eastern rite priests and married priests who have converted from Lutheranism or Episcopalianism are NOT allowed to marry after their ordination or remarry after the death of their wife. In addition, the Eastern Church only chooses bishops from among their celibate, unmarried priests, clearly demonstrating that they see an inherent value in the nature of celibacy.

I have read how Protestant minister's families have interfered in their religious duties. A celibate Catholic priest does not have these concerns and can give God's work first priority.

[Agrarian]

I'm pretty sure that the canons of the Orthodox Church do not allow anyone beyond the rank of reader/chanter to marry. Even subdeacons cannot marry, as I recall. One planning to marry is held at the level of reader until after he is married. But I may be wrong.

Again, these are matters of ancient clerical discipline, not of dogma. But they are strictly adhered to, in my experience.

[NYer]

The mere existence of the "converted Protestant" exception casts serious doubt on the legitmacy of the celibacy requirement, doesn't it? Are the parishes that get the married Priests getting a "sub-standard" product? Is it just expediency by the RCC, reacting to the Priest shortage?

Those who "renounce marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 19:12 NAB) do so not because marriage is bad, but precisely because its goodness makes its renunciation a valuable and generous gift to offer to God. After all, the goodness of a gift determines the value of the sacrifice. This is why the Israelites offered God their first-fruits, not their leftovers.

Not all married Protestant ministers who convert to the Catholic faith, are accepted into the catholic priesthood. Each applicant is evaluated on an individual basis. That does not make them a 'sub standard' product. If anything, that speaks volumes about their faith and devotion

A question for you. What is it about priestly celibacy that bothers you?

[Desdemona]

I suspect they are taking all comers.

No. The first step in the formation process is to discern whether or not a man has a true vocation. In the liberal dioceses, this is where the conservatives are turned away usually due to a psychological exam. In the conservative dioceses, this is where the ones with wishy washy convictions are weeded out.

[Romish_Papist]

'Lastly, the scriptures say that those who FORCE celibacy (not choose, force), are teaching doctrines of DEMONS: 1 Timothy 4:3"

Very good, now show me where anyone has ever been FORCED to be a priest.

[Romish_Papist]

"I would find it hard to feel close to a priest who was not married and raising children. Or to trust my children with one."

I wonder, does this apply only to priests or any man who is not married? I'm going to be thirty this month and I have never married, nor do I have children. Are you saying that would make you uncomfortable around me? If so, why? The logic of this escpes me completely.

[Siobhan]

I think you are missing something. The Catholic Church includes the Latin Church (the Patriarchate of the West) whose discipline is clerical celibacy. The Catholic Church also includes Eastern Catholic churches and rites in Union with the Bishop of Rome, and these churches have their own disciplines that involve a celibate episcopacy and allow for married priests, that is, men who were married before they were ordained priest. There is unity in essentials between the Latin and Eastern parts of the Catholic Church but not uniformity.

The Eastern Orthodox and their disciplines are a separate matter from the Easter Catholics who are their close liturgical and cultural cousins in many respects.

The Cluniac Reform of the Latin Church was an essential corrective for the priesthood, and the Latin Church isn't setting it aside now or ever though there are occasions when exceptions are made for the purpose of regathering the flock under the Vicar of Christ.

Siobhan

[NYer]

Just like we aren't bothered by our Eastern Rite brothers allowing a married priesthood, since it reflects their long-held tradition.

They also have a long-held tradition of denying Papal authority. Apparently that "bothers" the RCC enough to maintain the schism!

Catholics are generally unaware that they have millions of coreligionists who are not themselves part of the Roman Catholic Church. Indeed, even the term “Roman Catholic” isn’t quite right—it was actually a derogatory label assigned to us by Anglican Protestants, trying to legitimize their own use of the term “Catholic” over and against that foreign Church loyal to the pope of Rome.

In point of fact, the Catholic Church directly under the jurisdiction of Rome is properly and canonically termed the Latin Church. All official Church documents simply use the term, “Catholic Church.” And contrary to popular belief, most of the day-to-day work preformed by the Holy Father is not in his role as pope and pastor of the Universal Church but in his position in the Latin Church as the bishop of Rome and the patriarch of the West.

So who are these “other” Catholics? They have their own hierarchies and liturgies, as well as their own distinct apostolic lineages. They may look and act like Eastern Orthodox churches, but they recognize the pope of Rome as the head of the visible Church on earth and have suffered for the cause of that unity.

Meet the Catholic Churches. There are more of them than you think.

The Other Catholics: A Short Guide to the Eastern Catholic Churches

And, BTW, a Roman Catholic may attend liturgy at any of these churches and fulfill their Sunday obligation :-)

[Romish_Papist]

"even the term “Roman Catholic” isn’t quite right—it was actually a derogatory label assigned to us by Anglican Protestants,"

Which is why I like to refer to myself as a Papist of the Latin Rite. :)

[Graves]

You may be right. I'm no canonist.

[armydoc]

Not all married Protestant ministers who convert to the Catholic faith, are accepted into the catholic priesthood. Each applicant is evaluated on an individual basis. That does not make them a 'sub standard' product. If anything, that speaks volumes about their faith and devotion

Could a married, lifelong Catholic, who has been serving the church say, as a deacon, be accepted to a Catholic seminary and subsequent Priesthood on an "individual basis"? I don't think anyone would be challenging such a person's faith and devotion.

A question for you. What is it about priestly celibacy that bothers you?

It doesn't bother me. It fascinates me. I am fascinated by things I don't understand. The Church appears to have a Priest shortage. It gives a litany of reasons for requiring its Priests to be celibate. But then allows for married priests through the "back door". It is this contradiction that fascinates me, as well as the other apparent contradictions in Catholicism. As I have been often told on this forum that "I just don't understand". That is why I participate in these discussions. To attempt to understand. Not to "bash".

[Conservative til I die]

I wonder, does this apply only to priests or any man who is not married? I'm going to be thirty this month and I have never married, nor do I have children. Are you saying that would make you uncomfortable around me? If so, why? The logic of this escpes me completely.And it seems the only thing that a "family man" does to differentiate him from a single person is simply to have a family. Anyone with genitalia can do that.

[NYer]

Again, these are matters of ancient clerical discipline, not of dogma. But they are strictly adhered to, in my experience.

And so it is in the Catholic Church. The decision to remain celibate is freely chosen by seminarians, and it is not the Church that is forbidding them to marry.

[Conservative til I die]

I myself prefer Popish Romanist or Romish Papist.

[Graves]

I don't favor its being universally applied simply because, as our Lord Himself observed, albeit obliquely, not all men are cut out for it. "For there are some...which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it] (Mat 19:12)." On account of that reality, the canons of the Church do allow the parish clergy to be married.
On the other hand, as Agrarian confirmed, priests may not marry. They may be married, but they may not marry after their ordiantion.
I may be wrong but I have a hunch there's a connection between the sex scandals (and not just pedophilia), we have been seeing and the Latin Rite discipline. I can't prove it, but I do think there's a connection. I saw a report to the Roman Catholic bishops on the scandals. I'm sorry but I forget the name of the report. It was noteworthy that in this report very few scandals cropped up in the Uniate rites, almost all of them have occured in the Latin Rite.

[fortunecookie]

Just because Paul preferred to be unmarried, doesn't mean that God doesn't EQUALLY use the married. Otherwise, wouldn't Paul have rejected the married pastor? He quoted the married pastor TWO TIMES.

St. Paul highly recommended that his followers be unmarried, like himself, so as not to divide their intentions. The Catholic Church has adopted that practice and kept it for the better part of 2000 years. Why should that end now on the whims of a few? A few who took a vow of celibacy and are breaking that vow. And at a time in our history when fully 1/2 of all first marriages end in divorce. What then? Should our priests marry and then remarry after divorce? How many times? How divided will their attentions then become?

You may as well say, hey, Jesus was sinless, why aren't you?

He does expect us to try.

[Graves]

And I used to think papist was a derogatory term.
How about simply azymite? Azymite, to denote a "Papist of the Latin Rite", is the term Orthodox Christians used to employ in the years immediately following departure of the Latins from the Church in A.D. 1054. It has the advantage of being just as accurate but less wordy than the more long-winded expression.

[NYer]

Could a married, lifelong Catholic, who has been serving the church say, as a deacon, be accepted to a Catholic seminary and subsequent Priesthood on an "individual basis"?

No!

I don't think anyone would be challenging such a person's faith and devotion.

Of course not! It's a question of vows. Allow me to cite an example from the Eastern Catholic Churches. The Eastern Catholic Churches allow for a married priesthood. I am a Roman Catholic practicing my faith in a Maronite (Eastern) Catholic Church. Following the election of Joseph Ratzinger as Pope Benedict XVI, one of the parishioners asked our pastor if he thought the Latin Church might overturn its 'discipline' on priestly celibacy. His response was long and most insightful. To fully appreciate his response, you should know that he was born and baptized into the Maronite Catholic Church in Lebanon, the seat of the Patriarchal Church. His great grandfather was a married priest!

Our pastor is bi-ritual (Maronite and Latin Rites), speaks 8 languages fluently and reads Koine Greek, Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic. The Maronite Church allows for a married priesthood yet this man chose celibacy. Why?

He has been in the US for more than 15 years and has an excellent understanding of how both the Latin and Maronite Churches function, here, in the US. He took his time explaining to the assembled group why a married priesthood would not work in the West and what it would take to make it so. He pointed to the Eastern understanding of the permanency of marriage vs the 50%+ divorce rate in this country. He also commented on how Eastern churches are self-sustaining (they rarely supply heat in winter much less a/c in summer. Parishioners show up with blankets in the cold months and fan themselves when it's warm) vs the Western 'need' for creature comforts. He then cited the number of RC parish closings in our local diocese and asked how it would be possible for a congregation, that could not support a celibate priest, be able to fund a married priest and his family. He didn't stop there. He mentioned how parishoners in the East scrutinize the family of the married priest assigned to their parish. (The wife shows up with a new coat while some parishioners can't afford an old one .. you get the idea).

As a bi-ritual priest assigned to a Maronite parish, he volunteers his time with the local RC diocese. He is often called upon to say Mass at a priestless RC parish during the week in order to consecrate enough hosts for their priestless weekend services. In essence, he serves two masters - his Maronite bishop and the local RC bishop. How could he do this with a wife and children? His primary service is to God! (freepmail me if you want more detailed examples of his activities). Please read my other post to you!

The Church appears to have a Priest shortage. It gives a litany of reasons for requiring its Priests to be celibate. But then allows for married priests through the "back door". It is this contradiction that fascinates me, as well as the other apparent contradictions in Catholicism.

There are actually plenty of vocations today in faithful dioceses: Denver, Northern Virginia, and Lincoln, Nebraska, have great numbers of men entering the priesthood. If other dioceses, such as Milwaukee, want to answer the question of why they have so few vocations, the answer is simple: Challenge young men to a religious life that is demanding, countercultural, sacrificial, and loyal to the Holy Father and Catholic teaching. This is the surest way to guarantee a greater number of vocations.

[John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?]

How ancient is ancient? First century?

[Romish_Papist]

"And it seems the only thing that a "family man" does to differentiate him from a single person is simply to have a family. Anyone with genitalia can do that."

Indeed. And considering some of the "family men" out there, well, it seems an insipidly stupid thing to judge someone one.