Posted on 06/23/2005 6:41:22 AM PDT by wallcrawlr
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Joel Osteen, evangelism's hottest rising star, pastor for the biggest congregation in the United States.
(snip)
KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?
OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.
KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?
OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.
KING: You've been criticized for that, haven't you?
OSTEEN: I have. I have. Because I don't know.
(Excerpt) Read more at transcripts.cnn.com ...
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
>>HOW SHALL HE NOT WITH HIM GIVE US ALL THINGS FREELY<<
Because our goal, our aim, is not earthly things. We are called to seperate ourselves from the passions of the planet and all it's allurements. We're sojourners here - mere Pilgrims, who's goal is Heaven's gate, not earthly success.
I really don't think the LORD is pleased to "bless" me with a first-class ticket upgrade.
His grace is sufficient for me - I, and I'm guessing He, could care less whether I have an earthly mansion, yacht, lamborghini, or not.
The "power of positive thinking" profits nothing - subjecting yourself to the Almighty God with a rended heart and glorifying His name is what He wants of us.
Riiiiight. Like the really subversive things I ask Him for, like to be used by Him and to see His grace displayed through my life
And yet, I have had just that exact thing happen. I was on a flight from Ecuador to Spain, and the Lord provided a first class ticket for the price of coach.
Because, the Lord wouldn't do that, riiiiiiight? LOL. You cut yourself off from being blessed, because of your self-imposed "religion" that says what God "can" and "can't" do.
I'm not saying it's what He can and can't do - I'm saying its simply not important, nor is it worthy or profitable towards salvation and the continuing mortification of sin.
*I* cut myself off from nothing - I take what He gives freely, which is His grace, mercy and love - I care about nothing else that is earthly.
Those who came to Jesus seeking healing weren't turned away by the likes of your thinking, I can assure you that. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He blesses me with material things too, I just don't worship them as I worship Him :)
Paul's tribulations centered around persecution, not the kind of "suffering for the kingdom" some think they're doing.
Paul also suffered with "a thorn in the flesh" ... which God allowed to remain with him, ... though he entreated God to remove it ... not once, not twice, but three times.2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Some have suggested that the "messenger" was a false teacher sent by Satan to give him much grief. Having dealt with false teachers, I can empathize
You asked a question, I merely responded with scripture as to why God wouldn't answer our prayers, the primary reason being that those prayers are concerned with our earthly lusts. I made no suggestion as to your prayers.
It just seemed like you were directing your verse-pulling at me or the subject area. I DO ASK FOR MATERIAL THINGS. I don't hide that. I ask, and I receive, thank you Jesus! :)
For any confusion, I apoligize. I'm also sorry that you consider the quoting of scripture 'verse-pulling'.
I think it's verse-pulling if it's not used with discerment and discretion. I try to use the Word of God to direct people into the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, not beat people in the nose with it for not being perfect. And that ties in with this entire thread, and why some people here hate Joel Osteen so much, because he's enjoying the blessings of God's grace. Is Osteen perfect? Hardly. Has he said things that were wrong at times? Sure. We all have. But God's grace ISN'T DEPENDENT ON OUR "PERFECTION". We'll never be perfect in these bodies. Doesn't mean we are "disqualified" from God's free grace. And because that is so, I'm after His grace and love :)
True, no one is perfect. I also don't believe anyone here hates Joel Osteen the person. However, the fact that he teaches that other religions are on par with Christianity shows he has a flawed understanding of God's will.
>>and blesses me materially<<
Interesting, in that it's a direct contradiction to what He taught, which was to not follow or concern ourselves with material things.
Coveting (desiring earthly treasures) is idolatry - both are in direct violation of the 10 Commandments.
Re: "Seeking healing" - "Healing" and "having stuff" are two different things, please don't attempt to blur the lines. I am healed by the indwelling Holy Spirit - and that's all I need. Again, He said "My grace is sufficient", and I'm not in any position to question or deny that.
I really don't think the LORD is pleased to "bless" me with a first-class ticket upgrade.
I believe that 'sometimes ...' ... He is.
The undeniable truth, however, is that, 'most times ... ... He isn't.
And ... 'sometimes ..." ... He will allow us to experience suffering and loss. Even Osteen has testified that he has experienced seemingly inexplicable loss in his life.
I believe that God wants whats best for us, both individually and collectively.
However, too many of us are still children ... who lust for that which is not good for us. Obviously God will not indulge us to our detriment.
And he wants us to be mature in Him ... and so, He may continue to deny us the first-class upgrades so long as we make that out heart's desire.
It is as we take on more and more the character of Christ that we will find God consistently granting us the desire of our hearts.Matthew 8:19 Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go."
20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."
Hogwash. You don't understand Him as well as you think you do. He never bashed them for seeking PHYSICAL healing, and He never bashes people for seeking to be taken care of materially. Yes, I have spiritual healing eternally, and my heart is so changed on things (sins I thought would NEVER leave), and I rejoice in that. And I also rejoice in all the material blessings I've received, and I'm not going to denouce the Lord for healing and blessing people (ME). Instead, I'LL PRAISE HIM! :)
No, in truth that's VERY deniable. The Lord blesses me materially every day, above and beyond what I can ask for.
Some have suggested that the "messenger" was a false teacher sent by Satan to give him much grief. Having dealt with false teachers, I can empathize.
Grief is grief ... Paul asked for relief ... he didn't get it.
My point was the difference between a physical malady, vs. persecution, which category the false teacher falls into.
The undeniable truth, however, is that, 'most times ... ... He isn't.
No, in truth that's VERY deniable. The Lord blesses me materially every day, above and beyond what I can ask for.
God is faithful to bless us all in every way each and every day. Certainly He richly blesses me.
However, I believe that we were speaking specifically of God's provision of a free first-class upgrade on one's airline ticket.
Are you testifying that God regularly does this for you ... more often than not ?
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