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To: Alamo-Girl; xzins
"If it had all been fulfilled by 70 AD, don't you think the living apostles would have just plainly told everyone so? Instead, they decide to play some cat and mouse, "hunt the hint" game with ensuing generations of Christians?.....I don't think so!"

Indeed. Well said!

No one here that I'm aware of is contending that all was fulfilled in AD70. So this is a strawman.

What some of us are contending is that a significant portion of the OT prophecies were fulfilled in the 1st coming of Christ. At least that has been the crux of the debate so far.

Some folks place a larger grouping of certain prophecies around the 2nd coming based on a more literal interpretation of the OT. I say "more literal" because everyone spiritualizes the prophecies to a certain degree. (E.g., what futurist interprets Ezekiel 38-39 as a yet-future war being conducted on horseback with swords, spears, bows and arrows?).

So, for me at least, the bottom line is what prophecies can appropriately be interpreted as relating to the appearing Jesus Christ ("when the fullness of the time had come", Gal 4:4) and His ministry in coming to the world to redeem man from sin, and to usher in the kingdom of God (which He did, BTW). What has direct fulfillment in Christ's priestly, prophetic, and kingly ministries?

The answer from Jesus and His apostles seems to be "most". Over and over and over again in the NT do we find words like, "So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet".

Curiously, we never find the words "the prophets will be fulfilled at Christ's return." I know, that's an argument from silence. But it is clear that the NT writers had little concern for placing fulfillment of these important prophecies far into our future. Their focus was on Christ and what He came to do. And that should be our focus. I think many futurists have lost sight of that reality.

791 posted on 07/13/2005 7:37:05 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; xzins
Thank you for sharing your views!

Their focus was on Christ and what He came to do. And that should be our focus.

Truly, everyone on this thread is focusing on Jesus Christ. We all love Him and put him first in everything which is the Father's will (Colossians 1).

I don't sweat the details, topcat54. After all, the apostles themselves had disagreements now and again (Acts 15, etc.)

792 posted on 07/13/2005 7:53:34 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: topcat54
But it is clear that the NT writers had little concern for placing fulfillment of these important prophecies far into our future. Their focus was on Christ and what He came to do. And that should be our focus. I think many futurists have lost sight of that reality.

The New Testament writers were writing over their heads. This happens when the writing is God breathed. I doubt if any of them thought it would be 2000 years. But we know.

It is truly amazing how many passages we must interpret differently to support our differing views. Still there may be something to help us reconcile. Something we agree on is that Christ is coming,

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Put these two verses together in talking about Christ’s return. He is bringing his armies with him. The two sides are clear, one thinks the leaven is good, and will eventually choke out the evil. The other thinks the leaven is evil.

If this were Christ returning at the final judgment, why would he want to preserve the flesh (the old man)? On the other hand, if this is at the beginning of the 1000 years, the flesh needs to be preserved.

Another point on Israel. Surely you are not you looking for a legitimate temple and sacrifice? You notice all the people in the 70’s that made errors on prophecy. What about the early Brethren that got it right? Predictions 100 years ago that Israel would come together in unbelief. It is in their blindness that they seek to build a temple and continue their sacrifice. If they accomplish this, it will manifest their blindness. They do not understand that the sacrifice was finished at the cross. Still it is predicted that they will begin the sacrifices again, for in order for the sacrifice to cease, it must first start again. But, it will not be legitimate.

861 posted on 07/14/2005 4:39:40 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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