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To: topcat54
There is no objective evidence that modern Israel is an expression of the revealed will of God wrt the Jewish people.

Other than the fact that God foretold it?

And in that day there shall be the Root of Jesse standing for a banner of the people; to Him the nations shall seek; and His resting place shall be glorious. And it shall be in that day, the Lord shall again set His hand, the second time, to recover the remnant of His people that remains, from Assyria and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Ethiopia, and from Persia, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the coasts of the sea. --Isa. 11:10-11
Notice the order of events here: First, the Messiah, the Root of Jesse, will be a banner, a rallying point, for the nations (lit., the Gentiles) who will seek His rest. Then, after this point, God will regather His people "the second time" from the nations. The first time was from the Babylonian captivity, the second the regathering of Israel into a nation starting with the first immigrations of the Jews in the 19th century and running through the reformation of the nation in 1948.

Or consider what God says in Ezekiel's vision of the Valley of Bones (chap. 37):

O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, and will bring you into the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am Adonai, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and have brought you up out of your graves. And I shall put My Spirit in you (see Jer. 31:31-34), and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. And you shall know that I, Adonai, have spoken and have done it . . . (vv. 12-14)
Now see what He says in the previous chapter (36):
Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings, even as the defilement of woman's impurity, their way was before Me. So I poured My fury on them, because of the blood that they had shed on the land, and for their idols by which they defiled it. And I scattered them among the nations, and they were scattered through the lands. I judged them according to their way and according to their doings. And when they entered the nations where they went, they even profaned My holy name by saying to them, These are the people of the Jehovah, and they are gone out of His land. But I had pity for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went. Therefore say to the house of Israel, So says Adonai Elohim: I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. And I will sanctify My great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. And the nations shall know that I am Adonai, says Adonai Elohim, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all lands, and will gather you into your own land.

And I will sprinkle clean waters on you, and you shall be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do them. And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers. And you shall be My people, and I will be your God. (vv. 17-28)

Notice the order of events:

1) Israel was scattered.
2) Israel still did not glorify God.
3) But for His own name's sake, God returned them to their land.
4) Then, after returning them, God will put His Spirit on them and cleanse them from their sins.

The simple fact of the matter is that no people in the history of the world have survived more than 200 years in diaspora without losing their identity and culture--except the Jews. The continued survival of the Jew is the testimony of God's faithfulness, for "as regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes; but as regards the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes" (Rom. 11:28).

The fact that there would be a Jewish state in Israel in the End Times is assumed by all of the prophets, including Yeshua Himself (Mt. 24:15-18) and Sha'ul (2 Th. 2:4, where he refers to a functioning Temple). The fact that there is a Jewish state in Israel now--not because of the obedience of the Jews, but because of God's grace--gives us an idea as to how late it is on God's timeclock.

204 posted on 06/24/2005 2:02:31 PM PDT by Buggman (Baruch ata Adonai Elohanu, Mehlech ha Olam, asher nathan lanu et derech ha y’shua b’Mashiach Yeshua.)
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To: Buggman; Polycarp1; HarleyD; The Grammarian
Other than the fact that God foretold it?

You don't get it. Contrary to popular opinion, God did not foretell in Scripture the state of Israel circa AD 2005.

Even if you allow that futurism is an accurate portrayal of biblical eschatology (and that is a highly debatable point) there is no objective evidence to paint modern Israel as the fulfillment of any of the prophecies you cited. You just don't know. No one knows. If fact no one can know for sure until after Christ's second coming.

206 posted on 06/24/2005 5:54:46 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: Buggman

ABSOLUTELY BIBLICAL.

ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE.

ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

THX.


223 posted on 06/25/2005 8:33:31 AM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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