Posted on 06/09/2005 12:03:02 PM PDT by Rytwyng
"...If your ORAL 'tradition is NOT 'written down', then it is VERY capable of being corrupted, just as the OT writings prove"
With all due respect, WRITTEN words are also VERY capable of being corrupted. How many transcripts do we have of Scripture? How many "versions" do we have today, often saying things quite differently when discussing the same verse?
Regards
That's why y'all are broke. BTW, we're not in bondage. It's God's money, we're just returning some of what He's loaned us.
Don't rule it out. Perhaps there's a reason why these things on our computer screens are called icons ;-D
Lord, if it be your will, make it so.
>To say that we come to faith by reading the Scriptures is to totally ignore much of Scripture itself, that lays out how the Apostles taught people throughout the Empire that Christ had risen - by word of mouth and deeds, not by pamphlets handed out. <
I am not saying we come to faith by reading the scripture exclusively.I do know people that have come to faith by simply reading scripture.I know people that have come to faith through a Bible study and I know people that have come to faith by hearing the word.Bottom line is we don't get to choose.The Holy Spirit does.
I do believe God communicates with believers to a large part through scripture (with the guidsance of the Holy spirit).That is why we are told:
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
How else can we test every spirit except against a standard? That standard is scripture.I believe that is what Peter was teaching in II Peter and that is why Jesus so often quoted scripture to give authority to what he said.
"Bottom line is we don't get to choose.The Holy Spirit does."
Well, that sounds like we have no choice in the matter of conversion. I believe that God provides us with ample opportunities to repent and convert - through the actions of others or events in their lives. God is constantly drawing us, and I think WE are the ones who decide whether to come to Christ or not. I suppose it is a question of free will and God's foreknowledge of the saved.
"I do believe God communicates with believers to a large part through scripture"
God communicates with us to a large part through the events in our daily lives. It is that we are usually blind to His Providence in our lives for us to realize that we are being trained to be more like Christ. Perhaps we are learning to be more patient or to endure suffering because of an event that God places in our path. Also, we communicate through prayer in a personal manner that often excludes the use of Scripture. And finally, we communicate with God through the various sacraments (at least those who partake in a sacramental theology), visible actions of God's invisible grace.
Scripture is only one of many ways, perhaps not even the main way, that we come closer to God.
"How else can we test every spirit except against a standard?"
The Bible is not an all-inclusive standard. It is not a catechism or a systematic theological treatise. There are issues that it really doesn't touch on very much, or is vague, or even appears to contradict, to those without any guidance. Scripture is the test we apply our beliefs to, but sometimes, we have to use other methods, such as the 2000 year history of the Church's Tradition - contraception would be an example off the top of my head. It really isn't discussed much in the Scriptures. Yet, it is forbidden throughout Christianity's history.
Regards
Refreshing to find some amicable discussion and agreement between two Brothers amidst all of these imperious barbs being hurled about. What grief the Holy Spirit must endure at the haughtiness of men.
Indeed, I fear there will be hardliners on all sides in Hell; meticulous followers of every tradition who will be, at last, enternally damned.
Why?
Because, in all of the painstaking adherence to avery "jot and tittle", they misses the redemption God poured out at the cross. Without that redemption nothing else is of any eternal value. Knowing the meaning of the words -- redemption, reconciliation, salvation, etc. -- matters not at all if these have not been personally apprehended.
Now THAT'S a tragedy.
Jesus' blood has been spilled to pay the sin-price to redeem all, removing the judgement of God from us and opening the way for personal reconciliation with Him such that we can be saved from God's wrath, which He will pour out eternally upon the finally unrepentant. The cross of Christ is a spiritual amnesty; a window of opportunity to reconcile our relationship with God and receive salvation from His coming wrath and damnation. But that amnesty has an expiration date after which no-one else may avail themselves of God's grace and the time grows perilously short.
So, then, shall we waste this precious time bickering amongst ourselves like madmen whilst the unredeemed hurtle headlong toward the fiery Abyss?? Forbid it Lord God! Brothers, what account would we then make to The Almighty for this poor stewardship?? I would that none here must stand ashamed in this regard. To us has been given the Ministry of Reconciliation and we are Christ's Ambassadors. His command is not to "stay and argue" but to "go and make disciples."
Therefore, I urge that you do away with these strivings and go out into the streets and hedgerows bidding all you meet "Come in to the wedding feast of The Lamb." Be to the lost the witness Christ has made you to be that your reward in Heaven will be great; that many will be able to stand before God on that Day because you stood before them as His witness in this day.
Grace to you all, In Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sounds like you blame the Catholics for not taking care of your problems.
Yup.
The Bible defines moral truth.
Yup.
Jesus Christ lived a sinless life.
Yup.
God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe, and He rules it today.
Yup.
Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned.
Yup.
Satan is real.
Yup.
Christians have a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with others.
Yup.
The Bible is accurate in all its teachings.
Yup.
I fear you are probably correct. God certainly will hold Christians especially accountable for how they act, given the knowledge we have been given of God's revelation.
This discussion has shown us something; that people are passionate about their beliefs.
Regards
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