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Only 1 in 11 Christians Has a Biblical Worldview
Chalcedon Foundation ^ | 6/7/05 | Lee Duigon

Posted on 06/09/2005 12:03:02 PM PDT by Rytwyng

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To: Elsie
You just spout Chapter and verse, but there is no intelligence in it. You offer no meaning or edification. I have no respect for this style of "Christianity" It is hollow, but it sells real well on TV.

Touch the computer screen and feel the power

Oh brother. (no pun intended)



(well yes I did =^D)
181 posted on 06/10/2005 3:58:52 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: Elsie

"...If your ORAL 'tradition is NOT 'written down', then it is VERY capable of being corrupted, just as the OT writings prove"

With all due respect, WRITTEN words are also VERY capable of being corrupted. How many transcripts do we have of Scripture? How many "versions" do we have today, often saying things quite differently when discussing the same verse?

Regards


182 posted on 06/10/2005 4:00:09 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
We don't tithe in the Catholic Church. We are not in bondage to these sort of man-made obligations that you Protestants are.

That's why y'all are broke. BTW, we're not in bondage. It's God's money, we're just returning some of what He's loaned us.

183 posted on 06/10/2005 4:04:09 PM PDT by madison10
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To: Mark in the Old South
Touch the computer screen and feel the power

Don't rule it out. Perhaps there's a reason why these things on our computer screens are called icons ;-D

184 posted on 06/10/2005 4:08:24 PM PDT by Rytwyng
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To: Mark in the Old South
I would be the happiest guy on earth if God would give me the power to heal people over the internet - "Touch the computer screen and feel the power", as you said. Surely any Catholic theologian would assert that such a miracle is, in principle, possible.

Lord, if it be your will, make it so.

185 posted on 06/10/2005 4:14:20 PM PDT by Rytwyng
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Comment #186 Removed by Moderator

To: Mershon
Every baptized Christian (which is what makes one a Christian) ...

      You do understand that to the early church, and to fundamentalists today, the sprinkling of an infant is not a batism?
187 posted on 06/10/2005 5:21:20 PM PDT by Celtman (It's never right to do wrong to do right.)
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To: jo kus

>To say that we come to faith by reading the Scriptures is to totally ignore much of Scripture itself, that lays out how the Apostles taught people throughout the Empire that Christ had risen - by word of mouth and deeds, not by pamphlets handed out. <

I am not saying we come to faith by reading the scripture exclusively.I do know people that have come to faith by simply reading scripture.I know people that have come to faith through a Bible study and I know people that have come to faith by hearing the word.Bottom line is we don't get to choose.The Holy Spirit does.

I do believe God communicates with believers to a large part through scripture (with the guidsance of the Holy spirit).That is why we are told:

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How else can we test every spirit except against a standard? That standard is scripture.I believe that is what Peter was teaching in II Peter and that is why Jesus so often quoted scripture to give authority to what he said.


188 posted on 06/10/2005 6:01:20 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: Rytwyng
      IMO, the best book on the Christian worldview is How Should We Then Live?, by Francis A. Schaeffer.
189 posted on 06/10/2005 7:06:51 PM PDT by Celtman (It's never right to do wrong to do right.)
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To: Blessed

"Bottom line is we don't get to choose.The Holy Spirit does."

Well, that sounds like we have no choice in the matter of conversion. I believe that God provides us with ample opportunities to repent and convert - through the actions of others or events in their lives. God is constantly drawing us, and I think WE are the ones who decide whether to come to Christ or not. I suppose it is a question of free will and God's foreknowledge of the saved.

"I do believe God communicates with believers to a large part through scripture"

God communicates with us to a large part through the events in our daily lives. It is that we are usually blind to His Providence in our lives for us to realize that we are being trained to be more like Christ. Perhaps we are learning to be more patient or to endure suffering because of an event that God places in our path. Also, we communicate through prayer in a personal manner that often excludes the use of Scripture. And finally, we communicate with God through the various sacraments (at least those who partake in a sacramental theology), visible actions of God's invisible grace.

Scripture is only one of many ways, perhaps not even the main way, that we come closer to God.

"How else can we test every spirit except against a standard?"

The Bible is not an all-inclusive standard. It is not a catechism or a systematic theological treatise. There are issues that it really doesn't touch on very much, or is vague, or even appears to contradict, to those without any guidance. Scripture is the test we apply our beliefs to, but sometimes, we have to use other methods, such as the 2000 year history of the Church's Tradition - contraception would be an example off the top of my head. It really isn't discussed much in the Scriptures. Yet, it is forbidden throughout Christianity's history.

Regards


190 posted on 06/10/2005 7:07:58 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: jo kus; GrandEagle

Refreshing to find some amicable discussion and agreement between two Brothers amidst all of these imperious barbs being hurled about. What grief the Holy Spirit must endure at the haughtiness of men.

Indeed, I fear there will be hardliners on all sides in Hell; meticulous followers of every tradition who will be, at last, enternally damned.

Why?

Because, in all of the painstaking adherence to avery "jot and tittle", they misses the redemption God poured out at the cross. Without that redemption nothing else is of any eternal value. Knowing the meaning of the words -- redemption, reconciliation, salvation, etc. -- matters not at all if these have not been personally apprehended.

Now THAT'S a tragedy.

Jesus' blood has been spilled to pay the sin-price to redeem all, removing the judgement of God from us and opening the way for personal reconciliation with Him such that we can be saved from God's wrath, which He will pour out eternally upon the finally unrepentant. The cross of Christ is a spiritual amnesty; a window of opportunity to reconcile our relationship with God and receive salvation from His coming wrath and damnation. But that amnesty has an expiration date after which no-one else may avail themselves of God's grace and the time grows perilously short.

So, then, shall we waste this precious time bickering amongst ourselves like madmen whilst the unredeemed hurtle headlong toward the fiery Abyss?? Forbid it Lord God! Brothers, what account would we then make to The Almighty for this poor stewardship?? I would that none here must stand ashamed in this regard. To us has been given the Ministry of Reconciliation and we are Christ's Ambassadors. His command is not to "stay and argue" but to "go and make disciples."

Therefore, I urge that you do away with these strivings and go out into the streets and hedgerows bidding all you meet "Come in to the wedding feast of The Lamb." Be to the lost the witness Christ has made you to be that your reward in Heaven will be great; that many will be able to stand before God on that Day because you stood before them as His witness in this day.

Grace to you all, In Christ Jesus our Lord.


191 posted on 06/10/2005 7:18:18 PM PDT by HKMk23 (The requirements of stewardship are NOT a mandate for stupidity.)
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To: F16Fighter
"by the way, who told you that all of those books of the New Testament were Scripture?" Santa Claus.

The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (yeah, that one).

Fixed.
192 posted on 06/10/2005 7:35:32 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: F16Fighter
2) There is no "Apostolic Tradition" -- unless you happen to believe "traditions" impress The Almighty (Hint: They don't). And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:18-19 RSV)

It's not about impressing Him. It's about doing His will.

The New Testament canon itself is a product of APostolic Tradition.
193 posted on 06/10/2005 7:40:56 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Rytwyng

Sounds like you blame the Catholics for not taking care of your problems.


194 posted on 06/10/2005 7:45:38 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Elsie

Here comes the hate, oozing slowly out from behind the mask.
195 posted on 06/10/2005 7:51:43 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Rytwyng
Yeah, I thought of that too. The thought of my tithe going to pederasty payoffs... ugh... aaaghh... there are no words...

Finally the hate comes out. Back, Satan!
196 posted on 06/10/2005 7:59:17 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Rytwyng
Absolute moral truths exist.

Yup.

The Bible defines moral truth.

Yup.

Jesus Christ lived a sinless life.

Yup.

God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe, and He rules it today.

Yup.

Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned.

Yup.

Satan is real.

Yup.

Christians have a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with others.

Yup.

The Bible is accurate in all its teachings.

Yup.

197 posted on 06/10/2005 7:59:54 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: HKMk23

I fear you are probably correct. God certainly will hold Christians especially accountable for how they act, given the knowledge we have been given of God's revelation.

This discussion has shown us something; that people are passionate about their beliefs.

Regards


198 posted on 06/10/2005 8:00:29 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: Elsie
Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us Psst... She's DEAD!

You don't believe in the afterlife either? Hmmm, you're about 0 for 20 now, par for the course.

Keep digging the hole deeper.
199 posted on 06/10/2005 8:04:33 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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Comment #200 Removed by Moderator


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